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Post by Hemi Man on Sept 1, 2014 7:17:13 GMT -6
There a cure all but we will see if our AD is willing to do it and my money says he's not. I have lost confidence in him with his hires except soccer. David, I don't understand this statement! The ladies BB hire is outstanding!!!!! The others are new hires and we have to wait and see how they turn out. We will never be able to afford a proven D1 coach because we don't pay enough, plus, who wants to coach in a rural hick town like Troy (sarcasm here referring to recruiting players)! Keep in mind, Bobby Bowden started at South Georgia Jr. College before going to Howard College (Samford) in Birmingham. Just saying! John has done nothing to make me think he is not working hard to build our program. Man, you don't come in as an AD and fire a legend like LB who has moved Troy so far and you have to know that. I think Larry will take care of Larry when his time comes. Everyone can have an opinion on when that time is. I was as upset as anyone yesterday and maybe it's time to go In a different direction but if hiring was left up to fans we would have about 200 head coaches in each sport. Opinions are like noses, we all have one. I think LB will take care of LB. I'm sure many feel he should have already done so but that's life in sports. Would love a little insight on your expertise in recruiting in 2014. This is not 1960 or even 1995. High school games are regularly televised on ESPN. Kids are holding press conferences to announce their commitment. Not their signing. Just their verbal commitment. Six plus years ago Troy had the best facilities, the highest paid coach and staff, and what amounted to a full time recruiting coordinator. Now we are middle of the pack or worse on all those things. Social media is littered with student athletes talking about how bored they are in Troy. There is a movement to make that better, but it's a sloe process. That movement will also make game weekends in Troy more enjoyable and more of a college town atmosphere. Now, some want us to recruit south Florida more. Well, an 18 year old that grew up in Miami, Ft Lauderdale, or Orlando is going to be bored to death in Troy. So you better have some top notch facilities to get his or her attention. Certain higher ups have spewed, the look at what we accomplished with less, speech for years. The message that sends is that we don't need your donation we can do it without you. The worst sales speech in the world. We are losing an arms race, that everyday that goes by without dirt moving on that endzone facility puts us that much further behind. Those that give to athletics exclusively are continuously hounded by the academic side for money. They aren't doing their homework to see if those people have any affinity to give to academics. They see they give to athletics so they start after them for a gift to their side. The problems at Troy are deep and aren't going to be fixed with firing a coach. When the time comes for coach Blakeney to be replaced there better be a commitment to spend some real money on a staff and facilities or days like Aug 30 in Birmingham will become the norm. I think I'll have a beer.
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Post by saintflorian on Sept 1, 2014 7:36:57 GMT -6
I have known some folks that have worked in Major Gifts for Troy that work hard that would disagree. Some in the Admin would disagree that Troy has not upgraded its athletic facilities.
Lastly, I believe we have the talent and good kids to win the Sunbelt this year, does anyone disagree ?
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Post by Troystet on Sept 1, 2014 7:47:24 GMT -6
I am just going to comment on a couple of things and not my words, but words of coaches and former players that are involved in high school athletics. They are utterly frustrated by the lack of recruiting effort in central Florida to Tampa-Bradenton area. They have never once seen a Troy coach and three of them are Troy alum and are at top notch programs. What they get to see frequently is coaches from UAB, USA, WKU, MTSU, Georgia Southern, MAC schools and so on, but never Troy. This is not my opinion but facts, whether anyone wants to believe it or not, I don't care. I am hearing the same thing in Georgia. Have a friend at one of the top programs in Georgia...never seen a Troy coach. They send d1 players every year. So when people say we don't have the talent...there you go. As far as South Florida kids bored to death in Troy? Explain how we won two Nat. championships with players from South Florida, we don't even try anymore because we have this attitude that the only kids who will come to Troy are left over juco players and kids from Goshen. That attitude is just as bad as the do more with less.
I agree the problems are deep at Troy, and games like Sat do nothing but hurt fund raising. Do we need the field house? Absolutely. But trying to sell people on giving money after watching the last three years is not easy. I know fans and supporters who will not give a dime till they see a change in direction and if there is this group that I know then I am sure there are many more. I will continue to give back and support Troy, but I will tell you it is out of an obligation to give back for what Troy did for me, it's not in support of what I seen Sat. Do I hope we salvage this season? Yes, of course. I don't want to see my beloved university go down the toilet. Saturday we will see if they can turn it around. If we are blown out then this could be the worst season in 30 years. If we upset Duke or play them close then we might be ok. We have to improve, no doubt about that. I love Troy, I support Troy both financially and making a 12 hour round trip to every home game, but what I saw Sat. Sickened me and I don't want to see that as the norm.
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Post by atlantatrojan on Sept 1, 2014 8:48:27 GMT -6
I am just going to comment on a couple of things and not my words, but words of coaches and former players that are involved in high school athletics. They are utterly frustrated by the lack of recruiting effort in central Florida to Tampa-Bradenton area. They have never once seen a Troy coach and three of them are Troy alum and are at top notch programs. What they get to see frequently is coaches from UAB, USA, WKU, MTSU, Georgia Southern, MAC schools and so on, but never Troy. This is not my opinion but facts, whether anyone wants to believe it or not, I don't care. I am hearing the same thing in Georgia. Have a friend at one of the top programs in Georgia...never seen a Troy coach. They send d1 players every year. So when people say we don't have the talent...there you go. As far as South Florida kids bored to death in Troy? Explain how we won two Nat. championships with players from South Florida, we don't even try anymore because we have this attitude that the only kids who will come to Troy are left over juco players and kids from Goshen. That attitude is just as bad as the do more with less. I agree the problems are deep at Troy, and games like Sat do nothing but hurt fund raising. Do we need the field house? Absolutely. But trying to sell people on giving money after watching the last three years is not easy. I know fans and supporters who will not give a dime till they see a change in direction and if there is this group that I know then I am sure there are many more. I will continue to give back and support Troy, but I will tell you it is out of an obligation to give back for what Troy did for me, it's not in support of what I seen Sat. Do I hope we salvage this season? Yes, of course. I don't want to see my beloved university go down the toilet. Saturday we will see if they can turn it around. If we are blown out then this could be the worst season in 30 years. If we upset Duke or play them close then we might be ok. We have to improve, no doubt about that. I love Troy, I support Troy both financially and making a 12 hour round trip to every home game, but what I saw Sat. Sickened me and I don't want to see that as the norm. We won a national championship over 25 years ago when that field house was more top of the line. And also that was D2 with D2 talent. That was 1987 with a 1960s field house It's 2014.....
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Post by Troystet on Sept 1, 2014 9:01:10 GMT -6
The two south Florida receivers were both drafted by the NFL. Yes, it was D11 but the town was worse then. So don't try???
seems like what we are good at is excuses. Town is to small, field house is to bad, talent isn't good enough, coaches aren't paid enough.
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Post by atlantatrojan on Sept 1, 2014 9:06:06 GMT -6
The two south Florida receivers were both drafted by the NFL. Yes, it was D11 but the town was worse then. So don't try??? seems like what we are good at is excuses. Town is to small, field house is to bad, talent isn't good enough, coaches aren't paid enough. That field house was much more modern in 1987 than it is today. We are LAST in football facilities in the SBC. We are working out if a single wide trailer when other schools have mansions.
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Post by Troystet on Sept 1, 2014 9:24:11 GMT -6
Field House is old, but even in 87 it wasn't the nicest in our conference let alone D11. We need a field house yes, but this excuse has poisoned the program. We don't have it right now, we need to work twice as hard in recruiting but we aren't, and that's the fact. Sell the player on getting to play d1 and playing early. If we get the field house and don't change our recruiting philosophy, it won't Make a bit of difference.
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Post by Navarre Trojan on Sept 1, 2014 9:59:21 GMT -6
I am just going to comment on a couple of things and not my words, but words of coaches and former players that are involved in high school athletics. They are utterly frustrated by the lack of recruiting effort in central Florida to Tampa-Bradenton area. They have never once seen a Troy coach and three of them are Troy alum and are at top notch programs. What they get to see frequently is coaches from UAB, USA, WKU, MTSU, Georgia Southern, MAC schools and so on, but never Troy. This is not my opinion but facts, whether anyone wants to believe it or not, I don't care. I am hearing the same thing in Georgia. Have a friend at one of the top programs in Georgia...never seen a Troy coach. They send d1 players every year. So when people say we don't have the talent...there you go. As far as South Florida kids bored to death in Troy? Explain how we won two Nat. championships with players from South Florida, we don't even try anymore because we have this attitude that the only kids who will come to Troy are left over juco players and kids from Goshen. That attitude is just as bad as the do more with less. I agree the problems are deep at Troy, and games like Sat do nothing but hurt fund raising. Do we need the field house? Absolutely. But trying to sell people on giving money after watching the last three years is not easy. I know fans and supporters who will not give a dime till they see a change in direction and if there is this group that I know then I am sure there are many more. I will continue to give back and support Troy, but I will tell you it is out of an obligation to give back for what Troy did for me, it's not in support of what I seen Sat. Do I hope we salvage this season? Yes, of course. I don't want to see my beloved university go down the toilet. Saturday we will see if they can turn it around. If we are blown out then this could be the worst season in 30 years. If we upset Duke or play them close then we might be ok. We have to improve, no doubt about that. I love Troy, I support Troy both financially and making a 12 hour round trip to every home game, but what I saw Sat. Sickened me and I don't want to see that as the norm. Just did a quick glance at UABs roster, they have ONE KID from Neptune Beach, Ocala, Lake City and 3 from J'ville. Not what I would call a HUGE RECRUITING COUP of raiding the talent in S. Florida, not ONE PLAYER south of Ocala, no Tampa, No Orlando, no joy!! Now, I did not check all of the other teams/schools you mentioned but my point is that SOUTH FLORIDA ATHLETES are not the end all/be all of our troubles at Troy. Change will be here soon hope we are all ready for it. Many keep asking for it, like they did with the DC (Uncle JR). Well, he is LONG GONE and last I checked the answers didn't come with Coach Bolt, so,....... We got the change many thought was the answer, turns out they were ALL WRONG!! Should have gotten 1 or 2 recruits from S Florida!!!!!!
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Post by Troystet on Sept 1, 2014 10:09:54 GMT -6
They have one from Venice also. Point is they are getting aggresive about it down here. You will see more in the future. They are recruiting here, we aren't. Just relaying info from coaches, they know who is at their schools. Everyone from AL and the panhandle gets all defensive. The vast majority of the population and talent is Orlando-Tampa south.
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Post by Redwaver on Sept 1, 2014 10:44:08 GMT -6
I have known some folks that have worked in Major Gifts for Troy that work hard that would disagree. Some in the Admin would disagree that Troy has not upgraded its athletic facilities. Lastly, I believe we have the talent and good kids to win the Sunbelt this year, does anyone disagree ? Then maybe the focus should look toward Dr Hawkins and what he intends to do to get Troy back to the top. I'm not interested in what we are going to do in China or Japan, and not how Confucius thinks it should go. I'm interested in Troy Alabama and it's local branches. I'm interested in programs that bring our university notoriety here in America. I get the "We are a global concept" and "The Sun Never Sets on The Trajan Nation" but really, just what does that do with the "price of eggs in Brundage"? Now if these countries want this involvement from our university then get the lead out, partnership with us, pony up the millions that help us meet our needs here both academically and athletically. If Universities in economically strapped states like Mississippi and Louisiana can find, divert, invent, abscond funds to get their athletic programs at the top levels, it's difficult to understand why our leaders and state can't! We can talk hire and fire until we are blue in the face and little will occur. We have to eliminate every excuse then it falls at the feet of those in charge. Troy , the town, will always be an available excuse because it will always be small do if we believe you can't bring a championship any longer to a small southern rural town it's time to go back and compete against West Alabama! I'm through! ??
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Post by Hemi Man on Sept 1, 2014 11:20:32 GMT -6
I have known some folks that have worked in Major Gifts for Troy that work hard that would disagree. Some in the Admin would disagree that Troy has not upgraded its athletic facilities. Lastly, I believe we have the talent and good kids to win the Sunbelt this year, does anyone disagree ? Really? Assuming those are former employees in major giving? I know a few of them myself. Working hard and getting results are two different things. By administration do you mean academics or athletics? Athletics has seen upgrades, but the football complex is long over due. We havr the talent to win. Winning takes more than talent though. Are we as talented as few years back? Many say no. All you can do is base the performance off of the results. I think I'll have a beer.
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Post by Troystet on Sept 1, 2014 12:05:42 GMT -6
I have known some folks that have worked in Major Gifts for Troy that work hard that would disagree. Some in the Admin would disagree that Troy has not upgraded its athletic facilities. Lastly, I believe we have the talent and good kids to win the Sunbelt this year, does anyone disagree ? Then maybe the focus should look toward Dr Hawkins and what he intends to do to get Troy back to the top. I'm not interested in what we are going to do in China or Japan, and not how Confucius thinks it should go. I'm interested in Troy Alabama and it's local branches. I'm interested in programs that bring our university notoriety here in America. I get the "We are a global concept" and "The Sun Never Sets on The Trajan Nation" but really, just what does that do with the "price of eggs in Brundage"? Now if these countries want this involvement from our university then get the lead out, partnership with us, pony up the millions that help us meet our needs here both academically and athletically. If Universities in economically strapped states like Mississippi and Louisiana can find, divert, invent, abscond funds to get their athletic programs at the top levels, it's difficult to understand why our leaders and state can't! We can talk hire and fire until we are blue in the face and little will occur. We have to eliminate every excuse then it falls at the feet of those in charge. Troy , the town, will always be an available excuse because it will always be small do if we believe you can't bring a championship any longer to a small southern rural town it's time to go back and compete against West Alabama! I'm through! ?? this problem is more than just a field house. It won't improve anything with a field house if recruiting doesn't change. We are going into our third year in the arena and we are still losing in basketball. Maybe it's a 5 to 10 year plan to turn that around? Maybe we win this year? The number one excuse I hear is that we can't get players from a town bigger than Greenville because Troy is boring. Keep that mentality and we might as well go back to playing West Alabama and Valdosta. If Troy is all that then a locker room isn't going to fix it. So with that thinking all we need is a locker room and then kids from Tampa, Atlanta, Orlando will then want to play at Troy. If it's that simple then build it now. Use the money were using paying Chinese students way through Troy, issue a bond whatever. Build it, but if we don't change this defeatist attitude about nobody wanting to go to school in Troy, it won't change a thing. It's a cancer that needs removed.
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Post by Hemi Man on Sept 1, 2014 12:10:43 GMT -6
David you are confusing excuse making and a defeatist attitude with reality.
I think I'll have a beer.
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Post by Troystet on Sept 1, 2014 12:31:37 GMT -6
There is reality Brian. Troy is what it is town wise, our field house is what it is. The defeatist attitude is believing we can't and not trying. I know our recruiting effort is lacking, to many high school coaches saying they don't ever see a coach from Troy. So in that, how do we know if we don't even try. You can't just show up once every 5 years. High school coaches have a ton of input into young men's decisions and they will lean a lot to schools that are there and build relationships with players. I'm just saying we aren't attempting to recruit one of the most talent laden areas in the country. Why??? If we don't others will. If we don't have the talent,then why aren't we trying to get it. We can't get it without trying to get it. If we try and can't then fine, but we are going to have to try. And we are going to have to look at a Texas and metro Atlanta also.
my point is Troy isn't going to turn into Atlanta and nobody knows when the field house us going up. What do we do? Turn into North Texas of 2007-2009? We have to figure it out. Saying poor pitiful us won't work.
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Post by Hemi Man on Sept 1, 2014 13:01:48 GMT -6
There is reality Brian. Troy is what it is town wise, our field house is what it is. The defeatist attitude is believing we can't and not trying. I know our recruiting effort is lacking, to many high school coaches saying they don't ever see a coach from Troy. So in that, how do we know if we don't even try. You can't just show up once every 5 years. High school coaches have a ton of input into young men's decisions and they will lean a lot to schools that are there and build relationships with players. I'm just saying we aren't attempting to recruit one of the most talent laden areas in the country. Why??? If we don't others will. If we don't have the talent,then why aren't we trying to get it. We can't get it without trying to get it. If we try and can't then fine, but we are going to have to try. And we are going to have to look at a Texas and metro Atlanta also. my point is Troy isn't going to turn into Atlanta and nobody knows when the field house us going up. What do we do? Turn into North Texas of 2007-2009? We have to figure it out. Saying poor pitiful us won't work. The town will get better. There is finally a mayor that wants to see Troy U and Troy city work and grow together. It's coming. In all seriousness you should take your concerns about recruiting to Kenny. Having a personal relationship with him will most certainly get you the answers you are looking for. There's no need to come back and share your conversation with him here. He can tell you exactly what you want to know. I think I'll have a beer.
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Post by Troystet on Sept 1, 2014 13:06:25 GMT -6
Let's say I have and nobody knows why? When Brian Turner left it pretty much stopped south of me. I wish I had answers.
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Post by Hemi Man on Sept 1, 2014 13:08:59 GMT -6
Let's say I have and nobody knows why? When Brian Turner left it pretty much stopped south of me. I wish I had answers. The coaches know why. I will agree losing Brian Turner was a huge blow. I think I'll have a beer.
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Post by TrojanFanatic on Sept 1, 2014 17:19:56 GMT -6
If the endzone building is on hold anyway, why not see if we can get a recruiting coordinator first? I know that the funds for the field house are ear marked and that's fine, but if it's not happening within the next three to five years, then why not do something that has an impact? Most of you know more about the inner workings than I do, so I'm just asking a question. Honestly, we need the staff to do things more than the field house anyway. Buildings can only recruit so much, people recruit people, IMO
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Post by saintflorian on Sept 1, 2014 17:57:55 GMT -6
JH has hinted the endzone project will start soon.
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Post by TrojanFanatic on Sept 1, 2014 18:16:58 GMT -6
JH has hinted the endzone project will start soon. How long has that been hinted at now? I don't care when it starts, but until then, bring in someone/something that will have an impact.
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Post by saintflorian on Sept 1, 2014 18:23:06 GMT -6
JH has hinted the endzone project will start soon. How long has that been hinted at now? I don't care when it starts, but until then, bring in someone/something that will have an impact. In all fairness he has only been at Troy for two years.
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Post by Redwaver on Sept 1, 2014 18:28:21 GMT -6
David, I don't understand this statement! The ladies BB hire is outstanding!!!!! The others are new hires and we have to wait and see how they turn out. We will never be able to afford a proven D1 coach because we don't pay enough, plus, who wants to coach in a rural hick town like Troy (sarcasm here referring to recruiting players)! Keep in mind, Bobby Bowden started at South Georgia Jr. College before going to Howard College (Samford) in Birmingham. Just saying! John has done nothing to make me think he is not working hard to build our program. Man, you don't come in as an AD and fire a legend like LB who has moved Troy so far and you have to know that. I think Larry will take care of Larry when his time comes. Everyone can have an opinion on when that time is. I was as upset as anyone yesterday and maybe it's time to go In a different direction but if hiring was left up to fans we would have about 200 head coaches in each sport. Opinions are like noses, we all have one. I think LB will take care of LB. I'm sure many feel he should have already done so but that's life in sports. Would love a little insight on your expertise in recruiting in 2014. This is not 1960 or even 1995. High school games are regularly televised on ESPN. Kids are holding press conferences to announce their commitment. Not their signing. Just their verbal commitment. Six plus years ago Troy had the best facilities, the highest paid coach and staff, and what amounted to a full time recruiting coordinator. Now we are middle of the pack or worse on all those things. Social media is littered with student athletes talking about how bored they are in Troy. There is a movement to make that better, but it's a sloe process. That movement will also make game weekends in Troy more enjoyable and more of a college town atmosphere. Now, some want us to recruit south Florida more. Well, an 18 year old that grew up in Miami, Ft Lauderdale, or Orlando is going to be bored to death in Troy. So you better have some top notch facilities to get his or her attention. Certain higher ups have spewed, the look at what we accomplished with less, speech for years. The message that sends is that we don't need your donation we can do it without you. The worst sales speech in the world. We are losing an arms race, that everyday that goes by without dirt moving on that endzone facility puts us that much further behind. Those that give to athletics exclusively are continuously hounded by the academic side for money. They aren't doing their homework to see if those people have any affinity to give to academics. They see they give to athletics so they start after them for a gift to their side. The problems at Troy are deep and aren't going to be fixed with firing a coach. When the time comes for coach Blakeney to be replaced there better be a commitment to spend some real money on a staff and facilities or days like Aug 30 in Birmingham will become the norm. I think I'll have a beer. Hemi, you want who's "expertise in recruiting"? Not sure who you are referring to in you opinion or who you want a response from. You had two opinions from two different people in your quote, neither addresses recruiting in the pieces.
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Post by Redwaver on Sept 1, 2014 18:29:37 GMT -6
How long has that been hinted at now? I don't care when it starts, but until then, bring in someone/something that will have an impact. In all fairness he has only been at Troy for two years. Let's see, I think the thing that needs to be brought in is money!
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Post by bulldogtrojan on Sept 1, 2014 19:11:55 GMT -6
I want the kind of recruiter who can get guys to come and play for a team that was 2-10 last year, that plays their home games in a rust bucket stadium with a jumbo screen that is so old that it's green. I want the kind of coach who comes to that school knowing that UA's BOT may never give them their own stadium. You go out and tell these guys that they may never use those new facilities but their shoulders will provide a place for the next team to stand. I am tired of people whining about facilities. It's not the only thing. From LB to Shaughenessy they have become complacent. HOW did they not know how bad this would be?
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Post by Troystet on Sept 1, 2014 19:15:24 GMT -6
I want the kind of recruiter who can get guys to come and play for a team that was 2-10 last year, that plays their home games in a rust bucket stadium with a jumbo screen that is so old that it's green. I want the kind of coach who comes to that school knowing that UA's BOT may never give them their own stadium. You go out and tell these guys that they may never use those new facilities but their shoulders will provide a place for the next team to stand. I am tired of people whining about facilities. It's not the only thing. From LB to Shaughenessy they have become complacent. HOW did they not know how bad this would be? very well said.
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