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Post by saintflorian on Nov 14, 2022 21:10:31 GMT -6
Why is it a bad thing to discuss areas we can improve? I’m not calling for anyone to be fired. I really don’t understand how questioning certain areas of our performance based on our understanding of the game is a bad thing. No one on here thinks they’re a college coach. I personally like the shift to pro spread as I’ve said multiple times. Can someone explain why it isn’t ok to discuss strategy and what we see in a game? I love the game of football. As I said earlier especially offensive schemes. That’s part of why I watch football, all football and especially college football. If we can’t be free to discuss this part of football then maybe this board isn’t for me anymore. Amen. It’s ok to have different opinions. Engage and discuss. Love it.
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Post by fltrojan on Nov 14, 2022 21:39:17 GMT -6
I think we're seeing Gunnar in particular but the whole offense slowly figure some things out. I believe this team has an offensively explosive game in them that we will see this season. An important reminder: While Gunnar has been here for a long time, he received 0 player development for 3 years. In some ways, when HCJS got here it was like he was dealing with Gunnar fresh off the bus from Butler. No comment here on specific personnel but O productivity is worse now after 10 games into the new regime. 3rd down efficiency, TD/Int ratios, dropped passes, communication have all tanked since USM game. I just don't understand last summer's baffling player personnel moves. Season-saving D and kicking game has kept Troy afloat. (as well as inept kicking by opponents, ULaLA and Army. H#ll, we'd be sitting at 6-4 if either could kick a FG). Don't forget a blocked FG and fumble ran back for a TD or we lose to Marshall also. Defense has carried this team. No other FBS team has won two games scoring 10 points
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Post by buzzlightyear on Nov 15, 2022 5:23:57 GMT -6
In last three games we have played 5 (FIVE !) halves scoring an average of 4 points a half. I like everyone on here is not a college football coach but that is not good.
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Post by fltrojan on Nov 15, 2022 8:44:43 GMT -6
In last three games we have played 5 (FIVE !) halves scoring an average of 4 points a half. I like everyone on here is not a college football coach but that is not good. There needs to be a statue of this defense outside of the stadium after this season because odds are we will never see another one like it. We have one win scoring 17 points, two scoring 10 points and technically the Marshall game we only scored 9 offensive points (fumble ran back) and they shut out ULL the second half. Holding Ole Miss to 28 should have won that game. They never break
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Post by trojantke on Nov 15, 2022 8:50:47 GMT -6
I echo those who enjoy the debate on this board. Thats the point.
The offense has to get better. It's just so easy to throw all that "has to get better" at whoever the quarterback is. Ra'Jae slipped on one play when the ball was on time on a come back route and on the very next play missed a catch right up the seam. If he makes those two plays is Gunnar suddenly a better quarterback?
I do think the line has gotten better. Still thin but much better than the first half of the season just from my eye test. Would love y'all's thoughts on the aspects of the offense other than the QB play.
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Post by fltrojan on Nov 15, 2022 8:59:35 GMT -6
I echo those who enjoy the debate on this board. Thats the point. The offense has to get better. It's just so easy to throw all that "has to get better" at whoever the quarterback is. Ra'Jae slipped on one play when the ball was on time on a come back route and on the very next play missed a catch right up the seam. If he makes those two plays is Gunnar suddenly a better quarterback? I do think the line has gotten better. Still thin but much better than the first half of the season just from my eye test. Would love y'all's thoughts on the aspects of the offense other than the QB play. Got to get more athletic at QB going forward and more physical up front. OL had no coaching the last three years and they lost that physical play they had under Matt Moore. Current OL coach has them going in the right direction but run blocking needs improvement. We are very athletic at reciever and TE. Still not remotely a fan of Craddock because he has never produced as a OC and had we had the defense of 2019 we would be 1-9 right now and that isn't an opinion. I can't figure out why our first half offense is non existent. It seems whatever the game plan is doesn't work. HCJS has to decide after this season if he thinks Craddock deserves another season and imo he is playing Russian roulette gambling he has the same defense next year. We will see
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Post by buzzlightyear on Nov 15, 2022 9:48:19 GMT -6
Everyone is bringing up good points whether it is the O-line history or anything else. Since we do not have mobile qb's the dimension of their taking off and running is just not there. Without that in trying to establish the run some (as in three to four) unique sets or plays will have to be thrown in to give the doubting side to the D. The opening up of the O when poop is hitting the fan (when we are behind and need to catch up) works but some time there will be the lack of execution (like 4th and goal at Louisiana). Living on the edge gets you to fall on occasion. A set with Costelli (due to speed or even Kilcrease would add speed and confusion without burning red shirt year. This innovation may not be typical but our running game is not proficient enough to really open the passing game all the time early in games. Thanks to a weight program under Rusty and others we have been a good team in the 4th quarter. We need a "what the heck is this" around 3-5 times a game to loosen up and give us room to run our pass and run games as they are currently. I really believe with innovation we can have that spectacular year that few of us really thought was going to happen but we all hoped for at the beginning of this season.
Take ARMY for instance. They do things in a way to be able to compete and have done so for years. We too can make a few occasional tweaks to be able to open things up a little better without destroying a game plan of control.
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Post by pctrojan16 on Nov 15, 2022 10:12:17 GMT -6
I just want us scoring alot and giving up none. Need to look at a good portal QB
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Post by fltrojan on Nov 15, 2022 10:25:50 GMT -6
Everyone is bringing up good points whether it is the O-line history or anything else. Since we do not have mobile qb's the dimension of their taking off and running is just not there. Without that in trying to establish the run some (as in three to four) unique sets or plays will have to be thrown in to give the doubting side to the D. The opening up of the O when poop is hitting the fan (when we are behind and need to catch up) works but some time there will be the lack of execution (like 4th and goal at Louisiana). Living on the edge gets you to fall on occasion. A set with Costelli (due to speed or even Kilcrease would add speed and confusion without burning red shirt year. This innovation may not be typical but our running game is not proficient enough to really open the passing game all the time early in games. Thanks to a weight program under Rusty and others we have been a good team in the 4th quarter. We need a "what the heck is this" around 3-5 times a game to loosen up and give us room to run our pass and run games as they are currently. I really believe with innovation we can have that spectacular year that few of us really thought was going to happen but we all hoped for at the beginning of this season. Take ARMY for instance. They do things in a way to be able to compete and have done so for years. We too can make a few occasional tweaks to be able to open things up a little better without destroying a game plan of control. We didn't have a mobile QB with Levi and we sure didn't with Corey but we produced offensively. Gunnar seems to be okay if he can plant his feet and throw on a slant route. We basically have no deep vertical passing game and we cannot put the ball into tight spots. We have to get this corrected for next season because I hope and pray we have a defense like this season but the odds are we aren't. Losing Carlton alone is going to be a huge void
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Post by trojantke on Nov 15, 2022 11:15:05 GMT -6
I just want us scoring alot and giving up none. Need to look at a good portal QB If somebody comes into that room from the portal, somebody will go out. Why would Costelli stick around if there's no shot at the starting or back-up job in year 2? One would think that even if a true superstar came through that Gunnar would at worst move to QB2.
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Post by Hemi Man on Nov 15, 2022 11:21:04 GMT -6
Everyone is bringing up good points whether it is the O-line history or anything else. Since we do not have mobile qb's the dimension of their taking off and running is just not there. Without that in trying to establish the run some (as in three to four) unique sets or plays will have to be thrown in to give the doubting side to the D. The opening up of the O when poop is hitting the fan (when we are behind and need to catch up) works but some time there will be the lack of execution (like 4th and goal at Louisiana). Living on the edge gets you to fall on occasion. A set with Costelli (due to speed or even Kilcrease would add speed and confusion without burning red shirt year. This innovation may not be typical but our running game is not proficient enough to really open the passing game all the time early in games. Thanks to a weight program under Rusty and others we have been a good team in the 4th quarter. We need a "what the heck is this" around 3-5 times a game to loosen up and give us room to run our pass and run games as they are currently. I really believe with innovation we can have that spectacular year that few of us really thought was going to happen but we all hoped for at the beginning of this season. Take ARMY for instance. They do things in a way to be able to compete and have done so for years. We too can make a few occasional tweaks to be able to open things up a little better without destroying a game plan of control. We didn't have a mobile QB with Levi and we sure didn't with Corey but we produced offensively. Gunnar seems to be okay if he can plant his feet and throw on a slant route. We basically have no deep vertical passing game and we cannot put the ball into tight spots. We have to get this corrected for next season because I hope and pray we have a defense like this season but the odds are we aren't. Losing Carlton alone is going to be a huge void Deep routes behind that line? They have improved but a lot of work to be done. 3-4 seconds to throw? Seriously?
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Post by saintflorian on Nov 15, 2022 11:32:18 GMT -6
I just want us scoring alot and giving up none. Need to look at a good portal QB If somebody comes into that room from the portal, somebody will go out. Why would Costelli stick around if there's no shot at the starting or back-up job in year 2? One would think that even if a true superstar came through that Gunnar would at worst move to QB2. Somebody needs to come into that room next year. Does this team really roll the dice or even deserve another year with this OC and QB1 combination? It’s now the life of college football. Players want NIL and the transfer portal, I’m cool with it, but their is a flip side to that coin. If you can’t produce, the team needs to bring someone in that can compete. In your scenario above, #18 could transfer out to a smaller program and ball out for his SR year. #3 stay and competes given his class year.
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Post by trojantke on Nov 15, 2022 11:39:09 GMT -6
Somebody needs to come into that room next year. Does this team really roll the dice or even deserve another year with this OC and QB1 combination? It’s now the life of college football. Players want NIL and the transfer portal, I’m cool with it, but their is a flip side to that coin. If you can’t produce, the team needs to bring someone in that can compete. In your scenario above, #18 could transfer out to a smaller program and ball out for his SR year. #3 stay and competes given his class year. I know any conversation with you is done under the assumption that OCJC is an idiot, but if there was this great potential for Costelli, why haven't we seen a single snap from him? At this point, it's all bonus. He doesn't lose his redshirt even if he plays in all remaining games. I think it all goes back to the old adage about the back-up quarterback being the most popular guy on every campus. Maybe Costelli lines up in some "Wild Trojan/Super Back" type package on Saturday and goes crazy. If so, I'll gladly eat crow. But I doubt it. The more obvious answer is that we're playing the best QB we have at the moment. I've been a Doege guy for a long time but at some point I either trust HCJS who sees 100% of this football team's activities or I trust myself who sees 4 hours for 12 Saturdays. And if Gunnar is better now, why would we think #3 will suddenly be better after another offseason?
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Post by Hemi Man on Nov 15, 2022 12:09:31 GMT -6
Somebody needs to come into that room next year. Does this team really roll the dice or even deserve another year with this OC and QB1 combination? It’s now the life of college football. Players want NIL and the transfer portal, I’m cool with it, but their is a flip side to that coin. If you can’t produce, the team needs to bring someone in that can compete. In your scenario above, #18 could transfer out to a smaller program and ball out for his SR year. #3 stay and competes given his class year. I know any conversation with you is done under the assumption that OCJC is an idiot, but if there was this great potential for Costelli, why haven't we seen a single snap from him? At this point, it's all bonus. He doesn't lose his redshirt even if he plays in all remaining games. I think it all goes back to the old adage about the back-up quarterback being the most popular guy on every campus. Maybe Costelli lines up in some "Wild Trojan/Super Back" type package on Saturday and goes crazy. If so, I'll gladly eat crow. But I doubt it. The more obvious answer is that we're playing the best QB we have at the moment. I've been a Doege guy for a long time but at some point I either trust HCJS who sees 100% of this football team's activities or I trust myself who sees 4 hours for 12 Saturdays. And if Gunnar is better now, why would we think #3 will suddenly be better after another offseason? No room for logic on the internet sir.
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Post by Cane Gone Trojan on Nov 15, 2022 12:50:11 GMT -6
This Troy team reminds me a lot of the 04 Troy team that went to its very 1st bowl game as D1 team. The 04-team defense was dominant led by the legendary D. Ware. This year's defense is dominant lead by the future legend C Marshall. The 04 offense and this year's offense both struggled most of the year to put points on the board, but they both had/have had their promising moments. I'm just glad the last 3 years are behind us, and this years team is a team that we as Troy fans can ALL be proud of. GO TROY GO!
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Post by ksdtrojan on Nov 15, 2022 13:15:13 GMT -6
What we know:
The defense has been decent and deep with talent and now we are seeing the full capabilities they possessed the last 3 years now flourish under new leadership.
The offense wasn’t ever good and the OL under the previous coaching staff had to be rebuilt and is still being rebuilt. The OL is everything on a successful offensive system whether it’s the air raid spread or pro spread or triple option. How goes the OL so goes the offensive unit of the team. Without the OL, the QB/RB/TE/WR positions are left out to dry.
In my opinion… it is unfair to call for heads when the rebuild of the offense might take 3 years to complete because depth is needed and that talent needs to be developed.
My biggest concern is the communication side of the conversation. The missed assignments are glaringly obvious.
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Post by fltrojan on Nov 15, 2022 13:46:22 GMT -6
This Troy team reminds me a lot of the 04 Troy team that went to its very 1st bowl game as D1 team. The 04-team defense was dominant led by the legendary D. Ware. This year's defense is dominant lead by the future legend C Marshall. The 04 offense and this year's offense both struggled most of the year to put points on the board, but they both had/have had their promising moments. I'm just glad the last 3 years are behind us, and this years team is a team that we as Troy fans can ALL be proud of. GO TROY GO! The 04 team also beat Brad Smith and #18 Missouri. Maybe we need our ace sideline reporter to help put in the OG TD play 👍
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Post by fltrojan on Nov 15, 2022 13:48:39 GMT -6
What we know: The defense has been decent and deep with talent and now we are seeing the full capabilities they possessed the last 3 years now flourish under new leadership. The offense wasn’t ever good and the OL under the previous coaching staff had to be rebuilt and is still being rebuilt. The OL is everything on a successful offensive system whether it’s the air raid spread or pro spread or triple option. How goes the OL so goes the offensive unit of the team. Without the OL, the QB/RB/TE/WR positions are left out to dry. In my opinion… it is unfair to call for heads when the rebuild of the offense might take 3 years to complete because depth is needed and that talent needs to be developed. My biggest concern is the communication side of the conversation. The missed assignments are glaringly obvious. We don't have three years to rebuild the offense. Tony Franklin did it year one. We won't have the defense next year either
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Post by buzzlightyear on Nov 15, 2022 13:57:17 GMT -6
Lots of posts and I am kind of going to summarize here for us all.
"We the fans would appreciate a better offensive performance - Please"
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Post by cornhole on Nov 15, 2022 14:52:18 GMT -6
Lots of posts and I am kind of going to summarize here for us all. "We the fans would appreciate a better offensive performance - Please" NOW Don't waste this year's efforts in the next 4 weeks!!
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Post by saintflorian on Nov 15, 2022 15:24:33 GMT -6
Somebody needs to come into that room next year. Does this team really roll the dice or even deserve another year with this OC and QB1 combination? It’s now the life of college football. Players want NIL and the transfer portal, I’m cool with it, but their is a flip side to that coin. If you can’t produce, the team needs to bring someone in that can compete. In your scenario above, #18 could transfer out to a smaller program and ball out for his SR year. #3 stay and competes given his class year. I know any conversation with you is done under the assumption that OCJC is an idiot, but if there was this great potential for Costelli, why haven't we seen a single snap from him? At this point, it's all bonus. He doesn't lose his redshirt even if he plays in all remaining games. I think it all goes back to the old adage about the back-up quarterback being the most popular guy on every campus. Maybe Costelli lines up in some "Wild Trojan/Super Back" type package on Saturday and goes crazy. If so, I'll gladly eat crow. But I doubt it. The more obvious answer is that we're playing the best QB we have at the moment. I've been a Doege guy for a long time but at some point I either trust HCJS who sees 100% of this football team's activities or I trust myself who sees 4 hours for 12 Saturdays. And if Gunnar is better now, why would we think #3 will suddenly be better after another offseason? A point to clear up: never have called the OC an idiot. I have stated he is a below average OC. Facts and statistics prove this out, especially at his previous jobs. “The more obvious That we’re playing the best QB we have at the moment” That is not obvious. There could be a multitude of reasons we are not: promises we’re made, #3 has been injured, maybe not academically eligible, maybe he had a personal issue he is emotionally working through, maybe #18 is a favorite of the OC, maybe #3 is moving to another position, so forth and so forth. If the case #18 is the best we have, that’s why I stated we need to hit the Portal hard for a QB. And also, if #3 is not close to #18, we blew that assessment. You asked Why could #3 improve next year ? His talent level potential is high. You can see that in practice, on his tapes. He is young, more runway to improve. Another question that has been asked, has #18’s potential been limited to poor OC scheme and play calling ? Another point, why not try something different, what we are doing week in and we’ll out is not working. You literally almost can’t get any worse. We all just guessing. Appreciate your thoughts, made me think.
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Post by fltrojan on Nov 15, 2022 15:29:57 GMT -6
We didn't have a mobile QB with Levi and we sure didn't with Corey but we produced offensively. Gunnar seems to be okay if he can plant his feet and throw on a slant route. We basically have no deep vertical passing game and we cannot put the ball into tight spots. We have to get this corrected for next season because I hope and pray we have a defense like this season but the odds are we aren't. Losing Carlton alone is going to be a huge void Deep routes behind that line? They have improved but a lot of work to be done. 3-4 seconds to throw? Seriously? Granted they didn't have coaching but this isn't exactly a "inexperienced" OL. Unless I'm mistaken all but one have at least one year of starting and #79 is a four year starter. And what happened to the five juco linemen we signed? Always room for improvement with any line but they aren't a group of true freshmen either
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Post by trojantke on Nov 15, 2022 15:30:11 GMT -6
"I'll never tell you what to think, just ask you if you'd like to." Dr. Kit Carter
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Post by fltrojan on Nov 15, 2022 15:31:58 GMT -6
I know any conversation with you is done under the assumption that OCJC is an idiot, but if there was this great potential for Costelli, why haven't we seen a single snap from him? At this point, it's all bonus. He doesn't lose his redshirt even if he plays in all remaining games. I think it all goes back to the old adage about the back-up quarterback being the most popular guy on every campus. Maybe Costelli lines up in some "Wild Trojan/Super Back" type package on Saturday and goes crazy. If so, I'll gladly eat crow. But I doubt it. The more obvious answer is that we're playing the best QB we have at the moment. I've been a Doege guy for a long time but at some point I either trust HCJS who sees 100% of this football team's activities or I trust myself who sees 4 hours for 12 Saturdays. And if Gunnar is better now, why would we think #3 will suddenly be better after another offseason? A point to clear up: never have called the OC an idiot. I have stated he is a below average OC. Facts and statistics prove this out, especially at his previous jobs. “The more obvious That we’re playing the best QB we have at the moment” That is not obvious. There could be a multitude of reasons we are not: promises we’re made, #3 has been injured, maybe not academically eligible, maybe he had a personal issue he is emotionally working through, maybe #18 is a favorite of the OC, maybe #3 is moving to another position, so forth and so forth. If the case #18 is the best we have, that’s why I stated we need to hit the Portal hard for a QB. And also, if #3 is not close to #18, we blew that assessment. You asked Why could #3 improve next year ? His talent level potential is high. You can see that in practice, on his tapes. He is young, more runway to improve. Another question that has been asked, has #18’s potential been limited to poor OC scheme and play calling ? Another point, why not try something different, what we are doing week in and we’ll out is not working. You literally almost can’t get any worse. We all just guessing. Appreciate your thoughts, made me think. All excellent points
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Post by Trojans1andAll on Nov 15, 2022 15:36:20 GMT -6
...and they shut out ULL the second half. I believe ULL scored on their first drive of the second half. Maybe not their first, but they definitely scored early in the 3rd.
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