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Post by Troystet on Nov 28, 2015 13:14:33 GMT -6
Classic. Debating which 3-9 season is the better one. Regardless, coaches get paid to win. Wins, everything else are excuses. That's debatable at Troy
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Post by Trojanfan2 on Nov 28, 2015 13:33:06 GMT -6
Maybe we were promised too much or at least we thought we were. I listened pretty closely what the coaches were saying before the season and after the first couple of games. Brown has the catchy phrase "rebuild the wall", "every player here now has bought in to the program", "we're going to play physical and fast", etc. After the first two games it started to become -- we have a rough schedule, the conference didn't do us any favors on scheduling, I inherited the team, the other team had an extra week to prepare, we got rusty with two weeks off, etc. Saturday he looked like, in Ho's words, Roid Rage; running up and down the sidelines shouting at players, coaches, refs. I'm paraphrasing but you can go read and look at the interviews.
Bottom line -- Last game against GA ST. They came out of the tunnel spirited and enthusiastic, we walked or trotted out. They got into our heads as we had way too many unsportsmanlike penalties, We got a lot of breaks, turnovers, etc., Ga St fought back and took back control of the game. Looked like to me we were outplayed and out coached by a team that wasn't that much better, they just wanted it more.
I think we said rebuild the wall but we got a room divider instead.
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Post by Redwaver on Nov 28, 2015 14:47:39 GMT -6
Troyset I am not sure if next year dies improve that much if we will blame it on the past or present but if a relief pitcher comes in and runners at 2 and 3rd that if they score they count against the pitcher that allows them there in the first despite the relief guy giving up the hit....I know this is not baseball but I am suggesting that the previous staff is at least significantly involved Agree, but now people want to blame LB when they defended him while he ran the program into the toilet Troyset, in my case, and I suspect many others, with Larry it's involved RESPECT for what he had done for 23 years! RESPECT, I know it's a hard concept to for many to understand I realize that, but to a lot of people it's important. Most business people have it for their employees who give them years and years of great success but fall in difficult times. I, for one, just find it darn depressing to constantly be pushing the negative or trying to get someone fired or looking for the hole rather than the donut constantly. Larry let the program get away, was that a good thing? NO! Do I regret our patients with him? NO! I don't like losing any better than others but I do try to ask myself would I like that same level of expectation on me or have I ever had to work under those conditions and after all, life's to darn important to never see the sunlight of situations. Maybe at 74 that's just my new outlook, I don't know. Maybe that's why I gave up on the coaching profession after many years in it, fans know more than you do about the game and just have a bad year and people who don't have a clue want your job immediately. LSU is the PERFECT example! 4 weeks ago they were #2 in the nation and the coach was on top of the world. Loses to several very good teams and he's fired! Good grief!!! Where is common sense? Just my thoughts but with all that's going on in this crazy world this stuff with Neil is a pimple on and elephants butt and when all is said and done, more will be said than done.
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Post by saintflorian on Nov 28, 2015 15:06:40 GMT -6
Agree, but now people want to blame LB when they defended him while he ran the program into the toilet Troyset, in my case, and I suspect many others, with Larry it's involved RESPECT for what he had done for 23 years! RESPECT, I know it's a hard concept to for many to understand I realize that, but to a lot of people it's important. Most business people have it for their employees who give them years and years of great success but fall in difficult times. I, for one, just find it darn depressing to constantly be pushing the negative or trying to get someone fired or looking for the hole rather than the donut constantly. Larry let the program get away, was that a good thing? NO! Do I regret our patients with him? NO! I don't like losing any better than others but I do try to ask myself would I like that same level of expectation on me or have I ever had to work under those conditions and after all, life's to darn important to never see the sunlight of situations. Maybe at 74 that's just my new outlook, I don't know. Maybe that's why I gave up on the coaching profession after many years in it, fans know more than you do about the game and just have a bad year and people who don't have a clue want your job immediately. LSU is the PERFECT example! 4 weeks ago they were #2 in the nation and the coach was on top of the world. Loses to several very good teams and he's fired! Good grief!!! Where is common sense? Just my thoughts but with all that's going on in this crazy world this stuff with Neil is a pimple on and elephants butt and when all is said and done, more will be said than done. Ok, you believe the man (CLB) was more important than the program. This is the good ole boy network that has absolutely KILLED the potential of the Troy program. Neal B. gets paid to win football games. He needs to win more, plain and simple. Just like with the LSU situation, Miles get paid millions and millions to win the SEC and national championships. I don't see these coaches giving back their salaries when expectations are not met. You want to be a big time DI coach expect big time expectations.
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Post by saintflorian on Nov 28, 2015 15:08:39 GMT -6
Maybe we were promised too much or at least we thought we were. I listened pretty closely what the coaches were saying before the season and after the first couple of games. Brown has the catchy phrase "rebuild the wall", "every player here now has bought in to the program", "we're going to play physical and fast", etc. After the first two games it started to become -- we have a rough schedule, the conference didn't do us any favors on scheduling, I inherited the team, the other team had an extra week to prepare, we got rusty with two weeks off, etc. Saturday he looked like, in Ho's words, Roid Rage; running up and down the sidelines shouting at players, coaches, refs. I'm paraphrasing but you can go read and look at the interviews. Bottom line -- Last game against GA ST. They came out of the tunnel spirited and enthusiastic, we walked or trotted out. They got into our heads as we had way too many unsportsmanlike penalties, We got a lot of breaks, turnovers, etc., Ga St fought back and took back control of the game. Looked like to me we were outplayed and out coached by a team that wasn't that much better, they just wanted it more. I think we said rebuild the wall but we got a room divider instead. Part of the issue is we are having to bear the brunt of CNB rookie mistakes.
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Post by Troystet on Nov 28, 2015 15:20:35 GMT -6
Agree, but now people want to blame LB when they defended him while he ran the program into the toilet Troyset, in my case, and I suspect many others, with Larry it's involved RESPECT for what he had done for 23 years! RESPECT, I know it's a hard concept to for many to understand I realize that, but to a lot of people it's important. Most business people have it for their employees who give them years and years of great success but fall in difficult times. I, for one, just find it darn depressing to constantly be pushing the negative or trying to get someone fired or looking for the hole rather than the donut constantly. Larry let the program get away, was that a good thing? NO! Do I regret our patients with him? NO! I don't like losing any better than others but I do try to ask myself would I like that same level of expectation on me or have I ever had to work under those conditions and after all, life's to darn important to never see the sunlight of situations. Maybe at 74 that's just my new outlook, I don't know. Maybe that's why I gave up on the coaching profession after many years in it, fans know more than you do about the game and just have a bad year and people who don't have a clue want your job immediately. LSU is the PERFECT example! 4 weeks ago they were #2 in the nation and the coach was on top of the world. Loses to several very good teams and he's fired! Good grief!!! Where is common sense? Just my thoughts but with all that's going on in this crazy world this stuff with Neil is a pimple on and elephants butt and when all is said and done, more will be said than done. I respect what Larry did and I also hate what he did. I had teamates that got to play for him in 91-92 that loved him and loved what he did. They also state that he stayed to long, got soft, got lazy and lost control of the program. When they named the field after him as a still active coach, it put them in a position of being able to do nothing. You can't fire a coach you named the field after and that led to where we are now
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Post by Redwaver on Nov 28, 2015 15:28:29 GMT -6
Troyset, in my case, and I suspect many others, with Larry it's involved RESPECT for what he had done for 23 years! RESPECT, I know it's a hard concept to for many to understand I realize that, but to a lot of people it's important. Most business people have it for their employees who give them years and years of great success but fall in difficult times. I, for one, just find it darn depressing to constantly be pushing the negative or trying to get someone fired or looking for the hole rather than the donut constantly. Larry let the program get away, was that a good thing? NO! Do I regret our patients with him? NO! I don't like losing any better than others but I do try to ask myself would I like that same level of expectation on me or have I ever had to work under those conditions and after all, life's to darn important to never see the sunlight of situations. Maybe at 74 that's just my new outlook, I don't know. Maybe that's why I gave up on the coaching profession after many years in it, fans know more than you do about the game and just have a bad year and people who don't have a clue want your job immediately. LSU is the PERFECT example! 4 weeks ago they were #2 in the nation and the coach was on top of the world. Loses to several very good teams and he's fired! Good grief!!! Where is common sense? Just my thoughts but with all that's going on in this crazy world this stuff with Neil is a pimple on and elephants butt and when all is said and done, more will be said than done. Ok, you believe the man (CLB) was more important than the program. This is the good ole boy network that has absolutely KILLED the potential of the Troy program. Neal B. gets paid to win football games. He needs to win more, plain and simple. Just like with the LSU situation, Miles get paid millions and millions to win the SEC and national championships. I don't see these coaches giving back their salaries when expectations are not met. You want to be a big time DI coach expect big time expectations. Nope, not part of any "good old boy network"! No, I don't believe LB was more important than the program! "Killed" the program? Really, are you serious? No program has been "killed"!The rest of your comments aren't worthy of my time or comments. Your constant negative spews are part of the problem we are having now.! I've never seen constant harping on the negative solve anything except giving that person a false sense of "I know what needs doing better than those in charge do"!!!! I hope you work in the exact expectations you have for Troy coaches and their families but then Troy is just a little ol' hick town to you so why get so upset about what happens with any of it. Gotta ask this, given your feelings about Troy how on earth did you end up there? Don't answer that, I really don't care!
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Post by saintflorian on Nov 28, 2015 16:05:41 GMT -6
Ok, you believe the man (CLB) was more important than the program. This is the good ole boy network that has absolutely KILLED the potential of the Troy program. Neal B. gets paid to win football games. He needs to win more, plain and simple. Just like with the LSU situation, Miles get paid millions and millions to win the SEC and national championships. I don't see these coaches giving back their salaries when expectations are not met. You want to be a big time DI coach expect big time expectations. Nope, not part of any "good old boy network"! No, I don't believe LB was more important than the program! "Killed" the program? Really, are you serious? No program has been "killed"!The rest of your comments aren't worthy of my time or comments. Your constant negative spews are part of the problem we are having now.! I've never seen constant harping on the negative solve anything except giving that person a false sense of "I know what needs doing better than those in charge do"!!!! I hope you work in the exact expectations you have for Troy coaches and their families but then Troy is just a little ol' hick town to you so why get so upset about what happens with any of it. Gotta ask this, given your feelings about Troy how on earth did you end up there? Don't answer that, I really don't care! Oh brother. Not negative. Just tell the truth. I don't want to be one on those mindless drones that is always delusional. I love Troy University. Love it. The City and community around the university doesn't give two craps about the university. Why should we care about them ? Keep having your delusional "happy land " thoughts, I will stay real. Demand accountability. Work for success. Don't make excuses.
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Post by Redwaver on Nov 28, 2015 16:11:04 GMT -6
On behalf of former players, we hope to get back to Troy Football playing winning ball. There is to much pride and tradition to accept the decline of the last 5 years. It didn't happen this season and I don't expect much better next season but we can hope for the best I agree and as a former player I, like other fans, want to return to happier days soon. I have no reason to not think Neil will not get us there but the man deserves a fair chance with our respect and support. We didn't get bad in one year so we won't get good again in one either. Who knows about next season, I can see where there's a chance for reasonable improvement. It's hard to explain a few of games this year. The two we lost to USA and Idaho was due to Silvers absence in my opinion. Ga So was better than us as was App St. but we gave App St all they wanted but last week was a head scratcher. They (Ga St) are a different team than years before but still I think we were as good as they were and what bothered me most was, for the first time this year, we lost our composure, BIG TIME. This team is far to inconsistent to be good right now. Not sure why but some is understandable. Sadly, every team, every set of coaches and every fan base that we get on the field with expects the same as we do from our team, to WIN. One will be happy, one disappointed at the end of the day. I too hope we get back to having a LOT of happy days hopefully sooner than later! Go Trojans!
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Post by Redwaver on Nov 28, 2015 16:41:03 GMT -6
Troyset, in my case, and I suspect many others, with Larry it's involved RESPECT for what he had done for 23 years! RESPECT, I know it's a hard concept to for many to understand I realize that, but to a lot of people it's important. Most business people have it for their employees who give them years and years of great success but fall in difficult times. I, for one, just find it darn depressing to constantly be pushing the negative or trying to get someone fired or looking for the hole rather than the donut constantly. Larry let the program get away, was that a good thing? NO! Do I regret our patients with him? NO! I don't like losing any better than others but I do try to ask myself would I like that same level of expectation on me or have I ever had to work under those conditions and after all, life's to darn important to never see the sunlight of situations. Maybe at 74 that's just my new outlook, I don't know. Maybe that's why I gave up on the coaching profession after many years in it, fans know more than you do about the game and just have a bad year and people who don't have a clue want your job immediately. LSU is the PERFECT example! 4 weeks ago they were #2 in the nation and the coach was on top of the world. Loses to several very good teams and he's fired! Good grief!!! Where is common sense? Just my thoughts but with all that's going on in this crazy world this stuff with Neil is a pimple on and elephants butt and when all is said and done, more will be said than done. I respect what Larry did and I also hate what he did. I had teamates that got to play for him in 91-92 that loved him and loved what he did. They also state that he stayed to long, got soft, got lazy and lost control of the program. When they named the field after him as a still active coach, it put them in a position of being able to do nothing. You can't fire a coach you named the field after and that led to where we are now "It put THEM in a position of being able to do nothing"! Who's is THEM and what POSITION did they otherwise hold to do anything anyway? Just because we are former players give us absolutely no power in the hiring and firing department and o think it does is wishful thinking or ego neither of which is worth a tinkers d---! I don't understand why there is such distain for naming the field after him when they did. It was for what he had done for 23 years, not the last 4 years. If that bothers these former players because it kept them from helping get the man fired earlier then any further comments concerning them and their support of Troy here by me needs to stop!!!
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Post by Redwaver on Nov 28, 2015 16:45:40 GMT -6
Maybe we were promised too much or at least we thought we were. I listened pretty closely what the coaches were saying before the season and after the first couple of games. Brown has the catchy phrase "rebuild the wall", "every player here now has bought in to the program", "we're going to play physical and fast", etc. After the first two games it started to become -- we have a rough schedule, the conference didn't do us any favors on scheduling, I inherited the team, the other team had an extra week to prepare, we got rusty with two weeks off, etc. Saturday he looked like, in Ho's words, Roid Rage; running up and down the sidelines shouting at players, coaches, refs. I'm paraphrasing but you can go read and look at the interviews. Bottom line -- Last game against GA ST. They came out of the tunnel spirited and enthusiastic, we walked or trotted out. They got into our heads as we had way too many unsportsmanlike penalties, We got a lot of breaks, turnovers, etc., Ga St fought back and took back control of the game. Looked like to me we were outplayed and out coached by a team that wasn't that much better, they just wanted it more. I think we said rebuild the wall but we got a room divider instead. Part of the issue is we are having to bear the brunt of CNB rookie mistakes. "Rookie mistakes"? And exactly WHO is making that judgement and based on what experience? Identify exactly what "rookie mistakes" you have determined occurred and explain.....please!
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Post by Redwaver on Nov 28, 2015 16:50:25 GMT -6
Nope, not part of any "good old boy network"! No, I don't believe LB was more important than the program! "Killed" the program? Really, are you serious? No program has been "killed"!The rest of your comments aren't worthy of my time or comments. Your constant negative spews are part of the problem we are having now.! I've never seen constant harping on the negative solve anything except giving that person a false sense of "I know what needs doing better than those in charge do"!!!! I hope you work in the exact expectations you have for Troy coaches and their families but then Troy is just a little ol' hick town to you so why get so upset about what happens with any of it. Gotta ask this, given your feelings about Troy how on earth did you end up there? Don't answer that, I really don't care! Oh brother. Not negative. Just tell the truth. I don't want to be one on those mindless drones that is always delusional. I love Troy University. Love it. The City and community around the university doesn't give two craps about the university. Why should we care about them ? Keep having your delusional "happy land " thoughts, I will stay real. Demand accountability. Work for success. Don't make excuses. Thank you, I'm sure the powers that be at dear ol' Troy will rest easier tonight knowing you are on duty watching, evaluating and critiquing in order to help them know how to do their jobs!
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Post by crawlspace13 on Nov 28, 2015 21:19:40 GMT -6
Part of the issue is we are having to bear the brunt of CNB rookie mistakes. We're also having to deal with years of bad coaching, an undisciplined culture with a refusal to understand that boys on their own for the first time need to be taught how to be responsible men, and lackluster/lazy recruiting. It takes time to change all of that. When a coach says they had to start over from scratch because players didn't even have HS level fundamentals, you know it's bad. Even I'll say at this point that we're not up to par with several key positions on the team. Still like the energy that's been infused into them, though, and understand the difficulty in trying to change the culture in a program that doesn't know what discipline, hard work, and winning are. But I wonder if a lot of them are just a bit broken at this point in a hard season in which they really did double down their efforts. It was just beyond them, and that has to be hard for them. They probably bought into the hype too. As a side note, I respect LB for what he did for the program and the years he gave to the program when the university didn't seem to want to give back ($$$), but I also acknowledge that he let things get too far out of hand and should have been encouraged to retire sooner than he was (but this again required $ that I'm not sure was willing to be given any sooner). If recruiting is as aggressive as we've heard, we'll run the conference table in two or three years provided we can keep NB and VK. By that point Larry will get to be remembered as the storied coach he deserves to be remembered as. Our program isn't dead. It's just a little bruised and battered. (We're going to beat LaLa...)
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Post by saintflorian on Nov 29, 2015 5:53:07 GMT -6
Part of the issue is we are having to bear the brunt of CNB rookie mistakes. "Rookie mistakes"? And exactly WHO is making that judgement and based on what experience? Identify exactly what "rookie mistakes" you have determined occurred and explain.....please! Has CNB made mistakes this year ? Or do you believe he has not made any ? (His first mistake was keeping the offensive staff from the previous regime.)
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Post by saintflorian on Nov 29, 2015 5:53:35 GMT -6
Part of the issue is we are having to bear the brunt of CNB rookie mistakes. We're also having to deal with years of bad coaching, an undisciplined culture with a refusal to understand that boys on their own for the first time need to be taught how to be responsible men, and lackluster/lazy recruiting. It takes time to change all of that. When a coach says they had to start over from scratch because players didn't even have HS level fundamentals, you know it's bad. Even I'll say at this point that we're not up to par with several key positions on the team. Still like the energy that's been infused into them, though, and understand the difficulty in trying to change the culture in a program that doesn't know what discipline, hard work, and winning are. But I wonder if a lot of them are just a bit broken at this point in a hard season in which they really did double down their efforts. It was just beyond them, and that has to be hard for them. They probably bought into the hype too. As a side note, I respect LB for what he did for the program and the years he gave to the program when the university didn't seem to want to give back ($$$), but I also acknowledge that he let things get too far out of hand and should have been encouraged to retire sooner than he was (but this again required $ that I'm not sure was willing to be given any sooner). If recruiting is as aggressive as we've heard, we'll run the conference table in two or three years provided we can keep NB and VK. By that point Larry will get to be remembered as the storied coach he deserves to be remembered as. Our program isn't dead. It's just a little bruised and battered. (We're going to beat LaLa...) Good post.
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Post by Hemi Man on Nov 29, 2015 6:25:26 GMT -6
Maybe we were promised too much or at least we thought we were. I listened pretty closely what the coaches were saying before the season and after the first couple of games. Brown has the catchy phrase "rebuild the wall", "every player here now has bought in to the program", "we're going to play physical and fast", etc. After the first two games it started to become -- we have a rough schedule, the conference didn't do us any favors on scheduling, I inherited the team, the other team had an extra week to prepare, we got rusty with two weeks off, etc. Saturday he looked like, in Ho's words, Roid Rage; running up and down the sidelines shouting at players, coaches, refs. I'm paraphrasing but you can go read and look at the interviews. Bottom line -- Last game against GA ST. They came out of the tunnel spirited and enthusiastic, we walked or trotted out. They got into our heads as we had way too many unsportsmanlike penalties, We got a lot of breaks, turnovers, etc., Ga St fought back and took back control of the game. Looked like to me we were outplayed and out coached by a team that wasn't that much better, they just wanted it more. I think we said rebuild the wall but we got a room divider instead. I don't believe Neal promised us anything except that they would play hard and be disciplined. I think a lot fans thought changing coaches would immediately turn this thing around. Out of most everytime Neal spoke, I always got the impression he was telling us we aren't very good right now, but we will work hard and get better. Friday was the first time I saw anyone that wasn't playing disciplined. I don't know what the issues was, maybe frustration from not being bowl eligible? However, Neal made it clear in the interview that he got after the players harder than he had all year for their conduct. He also stated that if he did that in error he would correct it with the players. There's no doubt in my mind Neal Brown is the right guy and his recruiting, at this point tells me we are getting the guys to compete in the near future.
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Post by Redwaver on Nov 29, 2015 6:46:48 GMT -6
"Rookie mistakes"? And exactly WHO is making that judgement and based on what experience? Identify exactly what "rookie mistakes" you have determined occurred and explain.....please! Has CNB made mistakes this year ? Or do you believe he has not made any ? (His first mistake was keeping the offensive staff from the previous regime.) I don't think you've taken time to try to understand a lot of comments posted here but rather chose to attack anyone with a sense of compassion and appreciation. I'll try to help you in MY case. Did Larry stay up long? Yes, you and I agree, that's obvious to everyone. Would any sensible fan not wished he had gone out a champion? Of course! Did he stay with some ineffective staff members too long? Probably so but you nor I know why. Maybe he had no choice! Did he get "lazy"? I have no way of knowing that but his results indicate something went wrong and we all saw him become less involved on the sideline (aka Bobby Bowden) but I choose not to apply a unflattering descriptive adjective without some actual knowledge to support it. Call that "good ol' boy network" or any other critical handle you wish to apply. As to NB's "rookie mistakes", inferring that is like me telling you you made rookie mistakes running your company/business or whatever it is that you do without having the least idea of WHAT you did or WHY you did them. I've pondered what Larry might have done had the administration given him the resources they suddenly found to give Neil! I thought it interesting last night nearly at the end of the LSU game the announcers said (quote as close as I can recall)"it's sad that it seems like Coach Miles will be relieved of his job after going 9-3. Have we reached a point where 75+% winning percentage in a career is not good enough to satisfy some fans"! The other announcer said, "yes, I think we have and that's not good for athletics"! Now LB dropped much lower than that his last 4 years but my point is EVERY TROY fan wants to win EVERY game. EVERY Troy fan is disappointed at a loss but the thing that divides many of us is the way we react to those losses. I get as frustrated as anyone, I've been known to turn off the TV and take a walk and a few less than except able verbiage has been expressed by you're truly at times. That's bring a fan! Yep, I believe there comes a time for a coach to leave or be fired. Larry had reached that point but for Pete sake to show him appreciation and with class is the least we could do for the services he provided for ALL of us for a LOT of years. To sound "tough" and to constantly stir the sky is falling pot accomplishes absolutely nothing but make a bad situation worse. To make statements demeaning a person without access to information or being in a position to know what the heck you are talking about is irresponsible at best. Nothing wrong with giving opinions on outcomes of games or observation of performances of anyone but to go beyond that is beyond our pay grade! Now let's drop this about LB and give Neil a chance. If he doesn't turn it around then those in charge can deal with that then. Go Trojans!
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Post by saintflorian on Nov 29, 2015 7:11:51 GMT -6
Has CNB made mistakes this year ? Or do you believe he has not made any ? (His first mistake was keeping the offensive staff from the previous regime.) I don't think you've taken time to try to understand a lot of comments posted here but rather chose to attack anyone with a sense of compassion and appreciation. I'll try to help you in MY case. Did Larry stay up long? Yes, you and I agree, that's obvious to everyone. Would any sensible fan not wished he had gone out a champion? Of course! Did he stay with some ineffective staff members too long? Probably so but you nor I know why. Maybe he had no choice! Did he get "lazy"? I have no way of knowing that but his results indicate something went wrong and we all saw him become less involved on the sideline (aka Bobby Bowden) but I choose not to apply a unflattering descriptive adjective without some actual knowledge to support it. Call that "good ol' boy network" or any other critical handle you wish to apply. As to NB's "rookie mistakes", inferring that is like me telling you you made rookie mistakes running your company/business or whatever it is that you do without having the least idea of WHAT you did or WHY you did them. I've pondered what Larry might have done had the administration given him the resources they suddenly found to give Neil! I thought it interesting last night nearly at the end of the LSU game the announcers said (quote as close as I can recall)"it's sad that it seems like Coach Miles will be relieved of his job after going 9-3. Have we reached a point where 75+% winning percentage in a career is not good enough to satisfy some fans"! The other announcer said, "yes, I think we have and that's not good for athletics"! Now LB dropped much lower than that his last 4 years but my point is EVERY TROY fan wants to win EVERY game. EVERY Troy fan is disappointed at a loss but the thing that divides many of us is the way we react to those losses. I get as frustrated as anyone, I've been known to turn off the TV and take a walk and a few less than except able verbiage has been expressed by you're truly at times. That's bring a fan! Yep, I believe there comes a time for a coach to leave or be fired. Larry had reached that point but for Pete sake to showing him appreciation and with class is the least we could do for the services he provided for ALL of us for a LOT of years. To sound "tough" and to constantly stir the sky is falling pot accomplishes absolutely nothing but make a bad situation worse. To make statements demeaning a person without access to information or being in a position to know what the heck you are talking about is irresponsible at best. Nothing wrong with giving opinions on outcomes of games or observation of performances of anyone but to go beyond that is beyond our pay grade! Now let's drop this about LB and give Neil a chance. If he doesn't turn it around then those in charge can deal with that then. Go Trojans! Ok, you win.
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Post by Redwaver on Nov 29, 2015 7:14:53 GMT -6
I don't think you've taken time to try to understand a lot of comments posted here but rather chose to attack anyone with a sense of compassion and appreciation. I'll try to help you in MY case. Did Larry stay to long? Yes, you and I agree, that's obvious to everyone. Would any sensible fan not wished he had gone out a champion? Of course! Did he stay with some ineffective staff members too long? Probably so but you nor I know why. Maybe he had no choice! Did he get "lazy"? I have no way of knowing that but his results indicate something went wrong and we all saw him become less involved on the sideline (aka Bobby Bowden) but I choose not to apply a unflattering descriptive adjective without some actual knowledge to support it. Call that "good ol' boy network" or any other critical handle you wish to apply. As to NB's "rookie mistakes", inferring that is like me telling you you made rookie mistakes running your company/business or whatever it is that you do without having the least idea of WHAT you did or WHY you did them. I've pondered what Larry might have done had the administration given him the resources they suddenly found to give Neil! I thought it interesting last night nearly at the end of the LSU game the announcers said (quote as close as I can recall)"it's sad that it seems like Coach Miles will be relieved of his job after going 9-3. Have we reached a point where 75+% winning percentage in a career is not good enough to satisfy some fans"! The other announcer said, "yes, I think we have and that's not good for athletics"! Now LB dropped much lower than that his last 4 years but my point is EVERY TROY fan wants to win EVERY game. EVERY Troy fan is disappointed at a loss but the thing that divides many of us is the way we react to those losses. I get as frustrated as anyone, I've been known to turn off the TV and take a walk and a few less than except able verbiage has been expressed by you're truly at times. That's being a fan! Yep, I believe there comes a time for a coach to leave or be fired. Larry had reached that point but for Pete sake to showing him appreciation and with class is the least we could do for the services he provided for ALL of us for a LOT of years. To sound "tough" and to constantly stir the sky is falling pot accomplishes absolutely nothing but make a bad situation worse. To make statements demeaning a person without access to information or being in a position to know what the heck you are talking about is irresponsible at best. Nothing wrong with giving opinions on outcomes of games or observation of performances of anyone but to go beyond that is beyond our pay grade! Now let's drop this about LB and give Neil a chance. If he doesn't turn it around then those in charge can deal with that then. Go Trojans! Ok, you win. No, if Neil succeeds we ALL win!
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Post by Troystet on Nov 29, 2015 11:24:43 GMT -6
I respect what Larry did and I also hate what he did. I had teamates that got to play for him in 91-92 that loved him and loved what he did. They also state that he stayed to long, got soft, got lazy and lost control of the program. When they named the field after him as a still active coach, it put them in a position of being able to do nothing. You can't fire a coach you named the field after and that led to where we are now "It put THEM in a position of being able to do nothing"! Who's is THEM and what POSITION did they otherwise hold to do anything anyway? Just because we are former players give us absolutely no power in the hiring and firing department and o think it does is wishful thinking or ego neither of which is worth a tinkers d---! I don't understand why there is such distain for naming the field after him when they did. It was for what he had done for 23 years, not the last 4 years. If that bothers these former players because it kept them from helping get the man fired earlier then any further comments concerning them and their support of Troy here by me needs to stop!!! Them was Hawkins, Dennis/Hartwell, and others on boards or administration. When they named the field they sealed that fate. That is exactly why you don't name things after active coaches. Lb did great things but he was not a God, was not the program, was not bigger than the program and he certainty wasn't above doing his job. His seasons from 2011-14 (19-31) would have gotten any other coach fired and I assure you if NB does the same, he would be gone. But then again, I could be wrong. It is sad that we play on Larry Blakney Field, named after a coach who did great things, but now with a program in shambles directly because of him.
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Post by doc71 on Nov 29, 2015 12:14:03 GMT -6
"It put THEM in a position of being able to do nothing"! Who's is THEM and what POSITION did they otherwise hold to do anything anyway? Just because we are former players give us absolutely no power in the hiring and firing department and o think it does is wishful thinking or ego neither of which is worth a tinkers d---! I don't understand why there is such distain for naming the field after him when they did. It was for what he had done for 23 years, not the last 4 years. If that bothers these former players because it kept them from helping get the man fired earlier then any further comments concerning them and their support of Troy here by me needs to stop!!! Them was Hawkins, Dennis/Hartwell, and others on boards or administration. When they named the field they sealed that fate. That is exactly why you don't name things after active coaches. Lb did great things but he was not a God, was not the program, was not bigger than the program and he certainty wasn't above doing his job. His seasons from 2011-14 (19-31) would have gotten any other coach fired and I assure you if NB does the same, he would be gone. But then again, I could be wrong. It is sad that we play on Larry Blakney Field, named after a coach who did great things, but now with a program in shambles directly because of him. Easy man! It's not "sad" that we play on LB field! LB has been the most influential coach in our history! Obviously I think the world of Chan and Rick ... they were very important in laying the foundation, but they were here head coach here 2 and 3 years respectively! There's no doubt that LB deserves the field name ... and even if the school had waited until this year to do it, with the last 4 years he had ... he'd still deserve it!! It's the overall contribution/body of work. I don't think the naming thing had much to do with LB staying longer ... he had earned the right to try to go out on a positive note. LB stated himself that maybe he should've left after 2010 ... but he was in DROP. After the fact, you can always say "what if" ... maybe if they offered him an administrative post so he could serve out his 5 years of DROP?? He didn't make millions as our coach, I don't blame him for wanting to get the full DROP amount. (heck, I wish it was still around as I now approach retirement!! It's usually tough in the final year/years for a long serving coach. (see Spurrier, Bowden, Beamer, etc). Other teams "recruit against" the age. I'm getting on up in years ... I know you lose some energy/fire, etc. Recruiting is everything. The last few years we missed on several kids, and we just got out recruited by rivals. I don't think it was for lack of effort, just couldn't create the "buzz/excitement" that comes with a new coach. So, as some have said ... let's try to be positive! NB deserves and needs our support. You're right that if he has same results in 4 years, he should go. But, let's give him a chance! Oh, and even with just 3 wins, it was great to see a good Troy crowd at the Dome! I love Troy! I love Troy Football. It changed my life!! Here's to many good/successful years to come!!
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Post by Redwaver on Nov 29, 2015 13:47:04 GMT -6
"It put THEM in a position of being able to do nothing"! Who's is THEM and what POSITION did they otherwise hold to do anything anyway? Just because we are former players give us absolutely no power in the hiring and firing department and o think it does is wishful thinking or ego neither of which is worth a tinkers d---! I don't understand why there is such distain for naming the field after him when they did. It was for what he had done for 23 years, not the last 4 years. If that bothers these former players because it kept them from helping get the man fired earlier then any further comments concerning them and their support of Troy here by me needs to stop!!! Them was Hawkins, Dennis/Hartwell, and others on boards or administration. When they named the field they sealed that fate. That is exactly why you don't name things after active coaches. Lb did great things but he was not a God, was not the program, was not bigger than the program and he certainty wasn't above doing his job. His seasons from 2011-14 (19-31) would have gotten any other coach fired and I assure you if NB does the same, he would be gone. But then again, I could be wrong. It is sad that we play on Larry Blakney Field, named after a coach who did great things, but now with a program in shambles directly because of him. Read your post again, the "THEM" sounds like you are referring to the former players you said you played with or knew who played for LB, not the AD and other staff personnel you named. My guess is the naming of the field when they did had absolutely nothing to do with what those people decided to do or not to do or when they decided to do it relative to Larry but again I'm guessing. I personally have zero problems with playing on Larry Blakeney field, can't imagine why you do. I won't get into a debate over our differences in philosophy because I simply can't relate to the extent you see things that's wrong with this FB program and how little tIme you allow Neil to fix it before getting frustrated again. I get it, winning is everything and win or else! Somewhere you established a set of standards in your mind that you feel strongly about and that's ok with me if you don't think everyone should adhere to them as well. If you do, that to me is unreasonable but again that's just MY opinion. You have THOROUGHLY established that you have a distain for LB later years and how he left the football program as well as your opinions on juco's and the recruiting area.......I get that, believe me I get it but you expect the same in every sport be it MBB WBB BB SB, whatever at Troy. Great expectation I agree but how realistic? It seems if they don't win constantly without exception or reach some mythical standard the coach always needs to go. Is that acceptable standard a winning record every year, a SB championship every year, bowl game or NCAA invite or CWS every year? What is the expectation? Help me understand what you want and how they achieve that IMMEDIATE improvement you've indicated you expect in the football program, as an example, while staying away from juco's. You expect him to find high school seniors, 17 year olds, ready to compete at Dl and do it at a level of proficiency that meets your standard of winning? REALLY? He can't take a few years to grow his HS recruits because he is expected to win NOW. I also see that we have offered a kid from your area (Lakeland) so someone from Troy is obviously recruiting down there but maybe not as much as you wish or in schools where you have friends. That's a good thing since according to your statistics in an earlier post it holds 90% of Florida's talent ("the panhandle has only 10% of the states talent"! don't know where that statistic came from but I'm good with it if you know the statistic to be factual). I suspect every fan of Troy wants what you want, teams that win. I guess the difference is how we chose to deal with it when that doesn't always happen. I have definite opinions of issues, events, etc that has or has not occurred at Troy over the years just like you have but I don't see my thoughts as any the powers that be are required to embrace. If asked by them, I would share an honest opinion though. Let's hope we both get our wish for 2016, great athletic programs that compete with pride and determination against any and all competition and do it the right way with discipline and character. If that leads to championships (and it will), fantastic but I will still enjoy my game day experience with friends that are sadly becoming fewer and fewer as years pass! Peace my friend! Go Trojans!
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Post by Troystet on Nov 29, 2015 14:17:25 GMT -6
Them was Hawkins, Dennis/Hartwell, and others on boards or administration. When they named the field they sealed that fate. That is exactly why you don't name things after active coaches. Lb did great things but he was not a God, was not the program, was not bigger than the program and he certainty wasn't above doing his job. His seasons from 2011-14 (19-31) would have gotten any other coach fired and I assure you if NB does the same, he would be gone. But then again, I could be wrong. It is sad that we play on Larry Blakney Field, named after a coach who did great things, but now with a program in shambles directly because of him. Read your post again, the "THEM" sounds like you are referring to the former players you said you played with or knew who played for LB, not the AD and other staff personnel you named. My guess is the naming of the field when they did had absolutely nothing to do with what those people decided to do or not to do or when they decided to do it relative to Larry but again I'm guessing. I personally have zero problems with playing on Larry Blakeney field, can't imagine why you do. I won't get into a debate over our differences in philosophy because I simply can't relate to the extent you see things that's wrong with this FB program and how little tIme you allow Neil to fix it before getting frustrated again. I get it, winning is everything and win or else! Somewhere you established a set of standards in your mind that you feel strongly about and that's ok with me if you don't think everyone should adhere to them as well. If you do, that to me is unreasonable but again that's just MY opinion. You have THOROUGHLY established that you have a distain for LB later years and how he left the football program as well as your opinions on juco's and the recruiting area.......I get that, believe me I get it but you expect the same in every sport be it MBB WBB BB SB, whatever at Troy. Great expectation I agree but how realistic? It seems if they don't win constantly without exception or reach some mythical standard the coach always needs to go. Is that acceptable standard a winning record every year, a SB championship every year, bowl game or NCAA invite or CWS every year? What is the expectation? Help me understand what you want and how they achieve that IMMEDIATE improvement you've indicated you expect in the football program, as an example, while staying away from juco's. You expect him to find high school seniors, 17 year olds, ready to compete at Dl and do it at a level of proficiency that meets your standard of winning? REALLY? He can't take a few years to grow his HS recruits because he is expected to win NOW. I also see that we have offered a kid from your area (Lakeland) so someone from Troy is obviously recruiting down there but maybe not as much as you wish or in schools where you have friends. That's a good thing since according to your statistics in an earlier post it holds 90% of Florida's talent ("the panhandle has only 10% of the states talent"! don't know where that statistic came from but I'm good with it if you know the statistic to be factual). I suspect every fan of Troy wants what you want, teams that win. I guess the difference is how we chose to deal with it when that doesn't always happen. I have definite opinions of issues, events, etc that has or has not occurred at Troy over the years just like you have but I don't see my thoughts as any the powers that be are required to embrace. If asked by them, I would share an honest opinion though. Let's hope we both get our wish for 2016, great athletic programs that compete with pride and determination against any and all competition and do it the right way with discipline and character. If that leads to championships (and it will), fantastic but I will still enjoy my game day experience with friends that are sadly becoming fewer and fewer as years pass! Peace my friend! Go Trojans! Never said 10% of talent but the panhandle area population wise is a small percentage of the state as probably a good 60% plus of the population is south of me (Orlando-Tampa, West Palm, Sarasota-Fort Myers, Ft Lauderale and Metro Dade. It makes no sense to me to recruit one corner of the state. We are concentrating on Montgomery-Dothan. You have what? 4 public HS in Montgomery, 2 in Dothan, 2 in Pike County and 1 in Ozark. Would it make sense to ignore Birmingham, Mobile, Huntsville and the Florence area? No it wouldn't it. If we are needing talent so bad we should be turning over every rock looking and two hours south of me is one gigantic rock garden we ignore. I've never said we need all Florida players, what I've said is if we need talent, why are we casting into a small pond everybody is fishing instead of a lake with the same amount of fisherman???
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Post by Troystet on Nov 29, 2015 14:19:20 GMT -6
Them was Hawkins, Dennis/Hartwell, and others on boards or administration. When they named the field they sealed that fate. That is exactly why you don't name things after active coaches. Lb did great things but he was not a God, was not the program, was not bigger than the program and he certainty wasn't above doing his job. His seasons from 2011-14 (19-31) would have gotten any other coach fired and I assure you if NB does the same, he would be gone. But then again, I could be wrong. It is sad that we play on Larry Blakney Field, named after a coach who did great things, but now with a program in shambles directly because of him. Easy man! It's not "sad" that we play on LB field! LB has been the most influential coach in our history! Obviously I think the world of Chan and Rick ... they were very important in laying the foundation, but they were here head coach here 2 and 3 years respectively! There's no doubt that LB deserves the field name ... and even if the school had waited until this year to do it, with the last 4 years he had ... he'd still deserve it!! It's the overall contribution/body of work. I don't think the naming thing had much to do with LB staying longer ... he had earned the right to try to go out on a positive note. LB stated himself that maybe he should've left after 2010 ... but he was in DROP. After the fact, you can always say "what if" ... maybe if they offered him an administrative post so he could serve out his 5 years of DROP?? He didn't make millions as our coach, I don't blame him for wanting to get the full DROP amount. (heck, I wish it was still around as I now approach retirement!! It's usually tough in the final year/years for a long serving coach. (see Spurrier, Bowden, Beamer, etc). Other teams "recruit against" the age. I'm getting on up in years ... I know you lose some energy/fire, etc. Recruiting is everything. The last few years we missed on several kids, and we just got out recruited by rivals. I don't think it was for lack of effort, just couldn't create the "buzz/excitement" that comes with a new coach. So, as some have said ... let's try to be positive! NB deserves and needs our support. You're right that if he has same results in 4 years, he should go. But, let's give him a chance! Oh, and even with just 3 wins, it was great to see a good Troy crowd at the Dome! I love Troy! I love Troy Football. It changed my life!! Here's to many good/successful years to come!! He was making $500,000 a year plus perks and we let our program spiral out of control so he could get a bigger pension. Wow!!!
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Post by Redwaver on Nov 29, 2015 19:03:50 GMT -6
"Rookie mistakes"? And exactly WHO is making that judgement and based on what experience? Identify exactly what "rookie mistakes" you have determined occurred and explain.....please! Has CNB made mistakes this year ? Or do you believe he has not made any ? (His first mistake was keeping the offensive staff from the previous regime.) That's obviously your opinion and I'm not aware of what experiences and expertise you possess concerning D1 offensive strategies that gives you the knowledge up make that observation so I can't agree or disagree on this point BUT it's NB's job that's on the line so I think it is reasonable that he be allowed to choose who he wants to help him strive to be successful no matter your opinion or mine. I wasn't pleased with our predictability in play calling last year but it's Neil's job so we need to let Neil do it, then you can hold him responsible for his choices.
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