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Post by preacher on Jan 5, 2015 9:26:40 GMT -6
You need to work everything in recruiting. That field house by itself will not get us better players. As a parent, don't under estimate the influence a parent has. Yes, the player ultimately has the choice. But if momma wants her baby closer to home to see him play. Don't underestimate that either. Point on Akron and UNM. Facilities alone won't make you win. Akron, bar none has the best in the MAC and UNM and Boise have the best out there. Boise wins, UNM doesn't Hopefully you're not one that'd rather see our school continue to have the deck stacked against it, in football. The sport the drives the bus. It is apparent that our views are different, so I'll just stop there. I don't think they are that different. Yall just like to argue and if you didn't there would be no reading material on here.
Out of 25 scholarships there will a variety of things that hook an athlete. They will range from facilities, coaches, coaches relationships with high school coaches, campus life, playing time, mama's comfort level, close to home, away from home, etc... It will different for each one. Right now we have the momentum of something new, a proven offensive head coach, a proven track record (except one school) defensive coach, both coaches have a great track record at Troy, and Troy has a winning history to get back to. Those last things are major over arching truths I would think for the kind of athlete Troy needs at this moment in time. We need a winner who likes having the odds stacked against them a little because it motivates them to dig out and prove themselves. Which sales tickets and builds buildings.
It is all connected. All I know if we win it will be easier to recruit and build. And the program will be better for it. So until then we have to have faith and support both of those activities with our mouth and our wallet. Then when our faith becomes sight it will be much easier to support those activities with our mouth and our wallet.
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Post by trojanbrutha on Jan 5, 2015 10:12:15 GMT -6
Hopefully you're not one that'd rather see our school continue to have the deck stacked against it, in football. The sport the drives the bus. It is apparent that our views are different, so I'll just stop there. I don't think they are that different. Yall just like to argue and if you didn't there would be no reading material on here.
Out of 25 scholarships there will a variety of things that hook an athlete. They will range from facilities, coaches, coaches relationships with high school coaches, campus life, playing time, mama's comfort level, close to home, away from home, etc... It will different for each one. Right now we have the momentum of something new, a proven offensive head coach, a proven track record (except one school) defensive coach, both coaches have a great track record at Troy, and Troy has a winning history to get back to. Those last things are major over arching truths I would think for the kind of athlete Troy needs at this moment in time. We need a winner who likes having the odds stacked against them a little because it motivates them to dig out and prove themselves. Which sales tickets and builds buildings.
It is all connected. All I know if we win it will be easier to recruit and build. And the program will be better for it. So until then we have to have faith and support both of those activities with our mouth and our wallet. Then when our faith becomes sight it will be much easier to support those activities with our mouth and our wallet.
I am genuinely interested in the thought process of "old school" vs. new school. I see other programs willing to invest in their "cash cow" and understand that at the crux of it all, it's just football. But, the new school thinking is your Oregon, your bammers...who needs a waterfall in a recruiting lounge to win a ball game, right?
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Post by preacher on Jan 5, 2015 10:29:31 GMT -6
I don't think they are that different. Yall just like to argue and if you didn't there would be no reading material on here.
Out of 25 scholarships there will a variety of things that hook an athlete. They will range from facilities, coaches, coaches relationships with high school coaches, campus life, playing time, mama's comfort level, close to home, away from home, etc... It will different for each one. Right now we have the momentum of something new, a proven offensive head coach, a proven track record (except one school) defensive coach, both coaches have a great track record at Troy, and Troy has a winning history to get back to. Those last things are major over arching truths I would think for the kind of athlete Troy needs at this moment in time. We need a winner who likes having the odds stacked against them a little because it motivates them to dig out and prove themselves. Which sales tickets and builds buildings.
It is all connected. All I know if we win it will be easier to recruit and build. And the program will be better for it. So until then we have to have faith and support both of those activities with our mouth and our wallet. Then when our faith becomes sight it will be much easier to support those activities with our mouth and our wallet.
I am genuinely interested in the thought process of "old school" vs. new school. I see other programs willing to invest in their "cash cow" and understand that at the crux of it all, it's just football. But, the new school thinking is your Oregon, your bammers...who needs a waterfall in a recruiting lounge to win a ball game, right? I think some of it is all a matter of perspective. There will always be someone with more something. Personally I'm not really worried about what others do. Are we doing the best we can as Trojans? If you look at Trojan arena....I fully expect to have something on that level or better for football. Once we get that in football I think we can say we are doing our best. Then we don't sit back and do nothing for 10-15. We keep it looking nice and casting vision for the future.
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Post by sballalumni2 on Jan 5, 2015 10:37:53 GMT -6
Why don't they move the field house into the stadium or the basketball arena? They should have planned for that to happen instead of trying to build even more new facilities. I have limited knowledge on this topic, but it seems like the new arena could have had a football wing.
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Post by trojanbrutha on Jan 5, 2015 11:11:26 GMT -6
I am genuinely interested in the thought process of "old school" vs. new school. I see other programs willing to invest in their "cash cow" and understand that at the crux of it all, it's just football. But, the new school thinking is your Oregon, your bammers...who needs a waterfall in a recruiting lounge to win a ball game, right? I think some of it is all a matter of perspective. There will always be someone with more something. Personally I'm not really worried about what others do. Are we doing the best we can as Trojans? If you look at Trojan arena....I fully expect to have something on that level or better for football. Once we get that in football I think we can say we are doing our best. Then we don't sit back and do nothing for 10-15. We keep it looking nice and casting vision for the future. Well, it'd be about time... big money coming for the new staff and betting school administration and beer sales are contributors.
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Post by trojanbrutha on Jan 5, 2015 11:17:45 GMT -6
Why don't they move the field house into the stadium or the basketball arena? They should have planned for that to happen instead of trying to build even more new facilities. I have limited knowledge on this topic, but it seems like the new arena could have had a football wing. that would lead me to believe that bball is the cash cow... is there a multipurpose facility like that at this level? I don't believe that was ever a consideration. The multiplex at Cramton Bowl is like that, though...
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Post by Troystet on Jan 5, 2015 12:48:18 GMT -6
The Arena while nice maybe could have been done different. We draw no different than Sartain...except the MSU game but we didn't fill it for Ole Miss. We have a 5,400 seat arena that we draw 1,000-1,500 on avg. it will help with recruiting I suppose but not so much in attendance. I hope we can break ground and have the field house for the 2016 season but who knows. It seems football...the big sport at Troy was put on the back burner for other sports. Maybe due to the fact we were winning at the time in football. In the south, football is king. Winning football benefits the school, builds excitement etc. We put this on simmer to build a Taj Majal basketball arena for two .350 basketball programs and a softball program.
I love the Arena but it hurt the football program.
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Post by preachertoo on Jan 5, 2015 13:13:44 GMT -6
With arena we should be able to get high school state tournaments back at some point and time. It is also is used for other school functions. The arena also sets the standard for future athletic facilities.
I personally think we need state of the art indoor practice facility, team meeting rooms, weight room, and locker room. Can we do that cheaper without doing all the end zone dressing is not my decision. I would be interested to know how far the same amount of money could go if we built the building in an easier location than moving all the dirt for the endzone. Build a state of the art building down the hill. Put a state of the art score board and sound system in the endzone. Upgrade other stadium needs.
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Post by Hemi Man on Jan 5, 2015 13:59:18 GMT -6
Sartain Hall and Tine Davis were both in extreme need of replacement. Now there might be a few amenities that you can cut out to save a little on the new endzone facility, but if you do much of that you are going to just have to add to it sooner rather than later. The arms race never ends.
Small time thinking will keep you small time.
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Post by preachertoo on Jan 5, 2015 15:34:25 GMT -6
Sartain Hall and Tine Davis were both in extreme need of replacement. Now there might be a few amenities that you can cut out to save a little on the new endzone facility, but if you do much of that you are going to just have to add to it sooner rather than later. The arms race never ends. Small time thinking will keep you small time. I was talking about not putting it in the end zone. Wondered if you could build a bigger building just as nice that incorporated a indoor practice facility down the hill. Then do major upgrades to the stadium. Currently the endzone project doesn't include an indoor facility I believe. I would think that an indoor facility would be a major assest to the program and the student athlete. We would lose the box seating but if you met our needs and wants better by spend less money in construction..you might not need the box seating. By no means do I want to think small.
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Post by TheAmericanDream on Jan 5, 2015 15:46:17 GMT -6
Something isn't quite right with things when the 5A high school across the street has an indoor facility and the FBS university in town doesn't.
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Post by Navarre Trojan on Jan 5, 2015 16:23:33 GMT -6
Something isn't quite right with things when the 5A high school across the street has an indoor facility and the FBS university in town doesn't. Apparently they can raise money around town and Troy has struggled to do the same. That shows that the largest employer in Pike county can't seem to generate enough interest in D1, BIG TIME, college football.
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Post by preacher on Jan 5, 2015 17:28:35 GMT -6
Something isn't quite right with things when the 5A high school across the street has an indoor facility and the FBS university in town doesn't. Apparently they can raise money around town and Troy has struggled to do the same. That shows that the largest employer in Pike county can't seem to generate enough interest in D1, BIG TIME, college football. It's gonna happen!! Help be a part of it. You may be already, I don't know. That attitude changes one person at a time.
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Post by Redwaver on Jan 6, 2015 7:38:41 GMT -6
I don't think they are that different. Yall just like to argue and if you didn't there would be no reading material on here.
Out of 25 scholarships there will a variety of things that hook an athlete. They will range from facilities, coaches, coaches relationships with high school coaches, campus life, playing time, mama's comfort level, close to home, away from home, etc... It will different for each one. Right now we have the momentum of something new, a proven offensive head coach, a proven track record (except one school) defensive coach, both coaches have a great track record at Troy, and Troy has a winning history to get back to. Those last things are major over arching truths I would think for the kind of athlete Troy needs at this moment in time. We need a winner who likes having the odds stacked against them a little because it motivates them to dig out and prove themselves. Which sales tickets and builds buildings.
It is all connected. All I know if we win it will be easier to recruit and build. And the program will be better for it. So until then we have to have faith and support both of those activities with our mouth and our wallet. Then when our faith becomes sight it will be much easier to support those activities with our mouth and our wallet.
I am genuinely interested in the thought process of "old school" vs. new school. I see other programs willing to invest in their "cash cow" and understand that at the crux of it all, it's just football. But, the new school thinking is your Oregon, your bammers...who needs a waterfall in a recruiting lounge to win a ball game, right? Hummmmm, "old school vs new school"? Interesting identifier but even more interesting meanings. In this "old school" guys view, all this glitz and pageantry to just recruit a player(s) is the "new school" look and, regretfully, necessary to compete in today's "new" athletics. Is it good or bad? It's in the eyes of the beholder. Like decorating for a wedding, it often gets overblown and gussy just to get a basic job completed. I remember the day when basically the schools academic offerings was the more important factor. I do recognize that many of the "new" type athletes expect to be wined and dined in a lap of luxury to convince them that your place is better than their place but when all is said and done, it's salad dressing! Means nothing at kickoff on Saturday if that kid doesn't have the "old school" determination, dedication and commitment. Are athletes better athletically today than years ago? Probably! They have every benefit available that could make them better. The constant is the three criteria mentioned above. These are all personal traits and all the pomp and circumstance in Hollywood can't change that. Granted, if you get better athletes you have a chance of getting those three as well. If that happens you have a winner. Everyday you see great athletes who are losers personally. We all could name a truck load. When all is sad and done many of these guys are looking for star treatment and Troy can only offer that in limited amounts due to many factors. That's where parents, etc., become more of an important factor than in many other schools. At Troy we can have the nicest of everything in facilities but we are still located in a small Alabama town. If you are a city boy that wants city night life we're not likely to get you but if we can sell you on a great campus, great educational program in a caring environment then we have a chance. You can also sell "we care about you" factor. I remember a story Paul Bryant told about getting a great kid to Alabama. He had dropped in a small plain restaurant and eaten in a little south Alabama town and was friendly to the owner who was African American who had heard of Bryant and wanted an autographed photo for his restaurant. Bryant didn't have one but took his name and address and mailed him one the next week. He wasn't even scouting this mans relative but two years later, this really great kid from this same town refused Bryant's offer of a scholarship to Alabama. About a month later the same kid called back and told coach Bryant he had changed his decision if the offer was still there he would play for him. Bryant asked why and he said, "three years ago you ate at my grandfathers restaurant and grandpa said you were a honest man and kept your word and if I played football I would play at Alabama for you and nobody else"! You see, it's not all about the glitz......but it helps!
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Post by trojanbrutha on Jan 6, 2015 8:11:17 GMT -6
I truly believe that NB will be a fraction of the HC LB was because he had the benefit of working under his tutelage. Let's keep in mind that a lot of what was good about Troy hasn't gone away, but the manner in which the NCAA system does things has. Society has. The old school way is the right way, but it is now just a component in the machine, not the machine. One of the reasons that Troy has floundered is not meeting the same expectations that our brethren set as a result of our success. Also, the league set some requirements for its members that other members eventually exceeded our facilities. With regards to the machine, you're a part of it or you're not. We're either going to be a part of it or get run over by it. Old school has its place, but that has come to an end with the retirement of a legend. We're in for a penny, in for a pound...and I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that NB will be as old school as he can, but the new school rules the day...that's if you want the Ws that you're paying the coach to bring you. We are officially in the 21st century football arms race and we're losing.
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Post by Redwaver on Jan 6, 2015 9:21:49 GMT -6
I truly believe that NB will be a fraction of the HC LB was because he had the benefit of working under his tutelage. Let's keep in mind that a lot of what was good about Troy hasn't gone away, but the manner in which the NCAA system does things has. Society has. The old school way is the right way, but it is now just a component in the machine, not the machine. One of the reasons that Troy has floundered is not meeting the same expectations that our brethren set as a result of our success. Also, the league set some requirements for its members that other members eventually exceeded our facilities. With regards to the machine, you're a part of it or you're not. We're either going to be a part of it or get run over by it. Old school has its place, but that has come to an end with the retirement of a legend. We're in for a penny, in for a pound...and I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that NB will be as old school as he can, but the new school rules the day...that's if you want the Ws that you're paying the coach to bring you. We are officially in the 21st century football arms race and we're losing. Oh, I understand and agree that times have changed but I still believe Bryant, Lombardi, Royal, Wilkerson and many more of the "old school guys" would win today! It's so much about commitment and discipline. They would probably leave the glitz up to someone else and tend to the "old school basics. What are you willing to give up for the betterment of the TEAM vs better for YOU! That's old school that will never change. Use to be that everyone understood that concept but now...not so much thus the debate over small things like hair length, facial jewelry, etc.. Years ago there would have been no debate. Folks might not have like doing it but they knew it was part of the commitment. Now It's as though you shouldn't have to give up any personal identity or habits. The team and coaches should adjust to you because you are good athletically. Times have changed, kids are different in some ways but the good ones that you can count on still have that "old school" factor. JMHO!
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Post by Hemi Man on Jan 6, 2015 9:58:31 GMT -6
Recruiting from the "old days" to the present day is a totally different beast. Bryant would sign guys just to keep other teams from getting them. There were no 85 scholarship limits. There is no comparison to those days and the present .
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Post by trojanbrutha on Jan 6, 2015 10:40:24 GMT -6
Well now, I suppose could do it like the bear and company, but would it be with or without the facilities that are in place or the facilities from that era? The selling point that saban uses is facilities and the ability to get you to that next level... by way of those facilities. I understand the allure of tradition, but to build upon it today, you have to have the building blocks... foundation has already been laid.
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Post by Redwaver on Jan 6, 2015 14:43:03 GMT -6
Recruiting from the "old days" to the present day is a totally different beast. Bryant would sign guys just to keep other teams from getting them. There were no 85 scholarship limits. There is no comparison to those days and the present . You still had to go out, talk to mom, dad and the kid and convince them to sign. That hasn't changd!
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Post by Redwaver on Jan 6, 2015 14:46:27 GMT -6
Well now, I suppose could do it like the bear and company, but would it be with or without the facilities that are in place or the facilities from that era? The selling point that saban uses is facilities and the ability to get you to that next level... by way of those facilities. I understand the allure of tradition, but to build upon it today, you have to have the building blocks... foundation has already been laid. Oh! I've not said nor hopefully indicated that I don't think facilities are important. They are, VERY important but my point was that other things play a huge part as well and parents and friends are part of that equation.
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Post by chasin170 on Jan 6, 2015 14:54:44 GMT -6
Facilities never have a "dead period"
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Post by Troystet on Jan 6, 2015 20:25:47 GMT -6
I truly believe that NB will be a fraction of the HC LB was because he had the benefit of working under his tutelage. Let's keep in mind that a lot of what was good about Troy hasn't gone away, but the manner in which the NCAA system does things has. Society has. The old school way is the right way, but it is now just a component in the machine, not the machine. One of the reasons that Troy has floundered is not meeting the same expectations that our brethren set as a result of our success. Also, the league set some requirements for its members that other members eventually exceeded our facilities. With regards to the machine, you're a part of it or you're not. We're either going to be a part of it or get run over by it. Old school has its place, but that has come to an end with the retirement of a legend. We're in for a penny, in for a pound...and I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that NB will be as old school as he can, but the new school rules the day...that's if you want the Ws that you're paying the coach to bring you. We are officially in the 21st century football arms race and we're losing. Oh, I understand and agree that times have changed but I still believe Bryant, Lombardi, Royal, Wilkerson and many more of the "old school guys" would win today! It's so much about commitment and discipline. They would probably leave the glitz up to someone else and tend to the "old school basics. What are you willing to give up for the betterment of the TEAM vs better for YOU! That's old school that will never change. Use to be that everyone understood that concept but now...not so much thus the debate over small things like hair length, facial jewelry, etc.. Years ago there would have been no debate. Folks might not have like doing it but they knew it was part of the commitment. Now It's as though you shouldn't have to give up any personal identity or habits. The team and coaches should adjust to you because you are good athletically. Times have changed, kids are different in some ways but the good ones that you can count on still have that "old school" factor. JMHO! I can tell you with 100% certainty after coaching hs ball lately that these kids today could not play for a Bear, Lombardi, Hayes or even the coach you had and maybe even the one I had. Aside from the brutal practices the discipline they would not put up,with. Different times. They could still coach x's and O's wise but they couldn't field the X's and O's
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Post by trojanbrutha on Jan 7, 2015 13:48:52 GMT -6
Some of them certainly could and would because they would conform if they wanted to play for them. Again, Troy has to reform the way they recruit today's youth and not worry about how power 5 teams of yesteryear did it...
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Post by Redwaver on Jan 7, 2015 14:02:12 GMT -6
Some of them certainly could and would because they would conform if they wanted to play for them. Again, Troy has to reform the way they recruit today's youth and not worry about how power 5 teams of yesteryear did it... It's simply a measuring stick to compare with. Geez!
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Post by trojanbrutha on Jan 7, 2015 15:02:58 GMT -6
Imperial vs metric...I hate conversion...
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