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Post by utahwill on Sept 6, 2023 15:18:39 GMT -6
Hello Try fans.
Despite my user name I am a longtomeWVU for over 40 years and like any football fan have seen good and not so good times.
I am wondering what Troy fans in reflection saw in Neal Brown as he has been our HC for five seasons now and has truly struggled.
His biggest issues seem to be to motivate his team, questionable play calling, a suborns to try something different or replace platers who are underperforming.
He says the right things but his followthrough isn not there. However he seems a good person, runs a clean program and can be good with donor
Can you share any of your experiences as a fan from the Neal Brown days? He is on a very hot seat at WVU and in all honesty would you like to see him return to Troy where he had solid success?
His struggles at WVU baffle me as I thought he was a great hire.
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Post by trojanocean on Sept 6, 2023 17:10:17 GMT -6
In large part, he was hamstrung off the jump by a disgruntled student who torpedoed the organization by having WVU do away with one of the best defensive coordinators in the country. That just wasn't a good situation and WVU should've responded differently IMO. That's a weak, lilly-livered institution right there. Yes, I'm disappointed in what happened and other than keeping up with CNB, I wrote off pulling for the university just for that. Hail CNB and Coach Vic Koenning. Screw WVU. I'd take him back as a coach in some fashion, absolutely. Not as a replacement to the great Jon Sumrall but definitely as a member of the staff and heir-apparent when Sumrall goes somewhere. I'll let others speak to more reasons why he's struggled at WVU. He is a GREAT coach and the most that I can tell is that sometimes, it just doesn't spark between the man and the institution. Oh, and welcome to the Troy board.
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Post by Trojan By Birth on Sept 6, 2023 18:17:07 GMT -6
^Ocean nailed it with DC Vic Koeining. Other than that, you have to ask yourself, what coach could do better at WVU? Honestly, and I love your state and it's people, but it is a hard sell for 4* recruits and above. That being said, I think Neal has become too dependent on the computer. Sometimes the computer will throw out some genius move that nobody was considering like take a safety to guarantee a win. I think Neal's issue with that is he ignores his gut when he trusts the computer. But, as they say... the trick play goes well and he's a genius, it goes bad and he is an idiot.
One thing that Neal Brown did for Troy and it is still true under now coach Sumrall, is to create a program that develops young men. For example, at Troy, Neal had the players moving the students into the dorms. Carrying boxes, setting up rooms etc. At meal time, he made it mandatory that for every player at a table, there had to be one non player. The student body bought in to the football program. He is a very smart man and he runs a program the right way. That being said, if Sumrall leaves, we will be wanting him back.
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Post by cornhole on Sept 6, 2023 19:45:18 GMT -6
^Ocean nailed it with DC Vic Koeining. Other than that, you have to ask yourself, what coach could do better at WVU? Honestly, and I love your state and it's people, but it is a hard sell for 4* recruits and above. That being said, I think Neal has become too dependent on the computer. Sometimes the computer will throw out some genius move that nobody was considering like take a safety to guarantee a win. I think Neal's issue with that is he ignores his gut when he trusts the computer. But, as they say... the trick play goes well and he's a genius, it goes bad and he is an idiot. One thing that Neal Brown did for Troy and it is still true under now coach Sumrall, is to create a program that develops young men. For example, at Troy, Neal had the players moving the students into the dorms. Carrying boxes, setting up rooms etc. At meal time, he made it mandatory that for every player at a table, there had to be one non player. The student body bought in to the football program. He is a very smart man and he runs a program the right way. That being said, if Sumrall leaves, we will be wanting him back. Didn't HCJS take a safety to guarantee a win at Boone last year?? Agree, sometimes these HC don't go with the gut at times. And yes, the bru-ha-ha that resulted in Vic K leavng WVU was about as "wokey' as they come. Not sure that D Back puss of a player came out ahead either. Last I heard he was at Akron Zips? it will be tough for any HC to establish respect and credibility under the circumstances at WVU. I think the REAL question is: Why would Neal want or need to come back to Troy??
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Post by Trojan By Birth on Sept 6, 2023 20:25:58 GMT -6
^Ocean nailed it with DC Vic Koeining. Other than that, you have to ask yourself, what coach could do better at WVU? Honestly, and I love your state and it's people, but it is a hard sell for 4* recruits and above. That being said, I think Neal has become too dependent on the computer. Sometimes the computer will throw out some genius move that nobody was considering like take a safety to guarantee a win. I think Neal's issue with that is he ignores his gut when he trusts the computer. But, as they say... the trick play goes well and he's a genius, it goes bad and he is an idiot. One thing that Neal Brown did for Troy and it is still true under now coach Sumrall, is to create a program that develops young men. For example, at Troy, Neal had the players moving the students into the dorms. Carrying boxes, setting up rooms etc. At meal time, he made it mandatory that for every player at a table, there had to be one non player. The student body bought in to the football program. He is a very smart man and he runs a program the right way. That being said, if Sumrall leaves, we will be wanting him back. Didn't HCJS take a safety to guarantee a win at Boone last year?? Agree, sometimes these HC don't go with the gut at times. And yes, the bru-ha-ha that resulted in Vic K leavng WVU was about as "wokey' as they come. Not sure that D Back puss of a player came out ahead either. Last I heard he was at Akron Zips? it will be tough for any HC to establish respect and credibility under the circumstances at WVU. I think the REAL question is: Why would Neal want or need to come back to Troy?? Why would XHCNB come back? Sumrall would leave a locked and loaded team and Mrs. Dear Leader would allow him to do what needs doing to win. Troy never treated Brown bad as I remember. It’s a great fit for him to chase Legend Larry as winningest coach.
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Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Sept 7, 2023 6:07:34 GMT -6
From my view, Neal Brown never had the buy-in from most of his players. There was no unity.
You could see it on Twitter that first year he was there. Some players didn't like the change and didn't like the new staff, and they were always saying something negative on Twitter.
The thing that obviously made things worse were Kerry Martin and some other players essentially labeling Vic Koenning a racist. That whole situation spoiled everything, from team unity to recruiting.
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Post by srbtrojan on Sept 7, 2023 7:59:14 GMT -6
All the above is true. WVU cut his legs out just as he was getting started. It’s like the mom or dad undermining the other and then it allows for the kid to realize he has control. WVU screwed him and it can’t be undone. Neal needs to get the hell out of that toxic place asap!
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Post by Bubba the Trojan on Sept 7, 2023 8:33:07 GMT -6
My take. WVU, by their response to the Koenig situation, limited, if not prevented entirely , HCNB’s chance of success there. They were willing to pay him very well for that action. Unless he chooses to live more extravagantly than I think, he is set for life financially. He should stay until his contract is up or until they buy him out, get all of the money due him, then go do whatever he desires to do, wherever he desires to do it, be it coaching or not. I know he is Uber competitive, but at this point he can swallow that just a bit to finish taking the $$$ from those who despise writing him a check on a regular basis. That in itself would be a win for me.
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Post by saintflorian on Sept 7, 2023 9:12:43 GMT -6
Hello Try fans. Despite my user name I am a longtomeWVU for over 40 years and like any football fan have seen good and not so good times. I am wondering what Troy fans in reflection saw in Neal Brown as he has been our HC for five seasons now and has truly struggled. His biggest issues seem to be to motivate his team, questionable play calling, a suborns to try something different or replace platers who are underperforming. He says the right things but his followthrough isn not there. However he seems a good person, runs a clean program and can be good with donor Can you share any of your experiences as a fan from the Neal Brown days? He is on a very hot seat at WVU and in all honesty would you like to see him return to Troy where he had solid success? His struggles at WVU baffle me as I thought he was a great hire. A coach can win consistently at WVU. Very passionate fan base. Yes, WVU undercut him for sure. Put him behind the eight ball. But he has run through coordinators, which is never good for continuity and recruiting. Some bad hires. I like Neal Brown, just a good dude. Smart coach. Maybe the job also was just too big for him, IDK. Never know how folks react when moving up. And sometimes it just isn’t a fit. And some coaches just excel at smaller programs. So many variables. But Neal Brown will be fine. Don’t see Neal coming back to Troy. Follow up performances almost never work out. He always said he wanted to return home. His buyout after this year is $13 million. Looking like another losing year at WVU, so suspect he gets canned. Why not go home, raise the kids and if an opportunity presents itself, like OC at Kentucky, OC at Louisville, HC at Bowling Green, etc.
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Post by jonesoxygen on Sept 7, 2023 9:34:45 GMT -6
I don't think WVU has $13 million for buyout plus the ability to pay a new coach. WVU as a school has cut majors and terminated staff. I think he will be there for a while whether they like it or not.
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Post by cornhole on Sept 7, 2023 9:42:02 GMT -6
I don't think WVU has $13 million for buyout plus the ability to pay a new coach. WVU as a school has cut majors and terminated staff. I think he will be there for a while whether they like it or not. ^^ This. Hugely expensive capital projects, COVID, leadership recalls and decreasing enrollment have created quite a slippery slope in Morgantown. If offered, NB should take the money and run like an antelope!!
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Post by Troy_Fan_15 on Sept 7, 2023 10:39:02 GMT -6
Yeah WVU is in a mess right now that extends well beyond the football field. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I think Neal just jumped before he was really ready for the big stage.
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Post by Navarre Trojan on Sept 7, 2023 11:45:52 GMT -6
A LOT of great points made above. The Vic mishap was certainly an early player in NBs success. I don't know what he inherited at WVU, what kind of team/culture he had, who left, who he brought in, etc. so hare to pinpoint the why's. He had to make some REALLY tough choices when he first got to Troy and cut some players loose that just weren't going to work. Sent the message, was before the portal (where some crybabies go, not all, but some) and the team that was left 'got it'. I do know that Neal is a guy that coaches HARD, with deep conviction, and finding those kinds of players is very difficult. Was the job too big, I don't think so, for him. Remember he had been at big programs before, but it may have been too big for some of his hires. New times, tough roads to navigate, transfer portal, NIL and the product hasn't lived up to his or WVUs standards all factor in to the current situation. I really hope he gets 7-8 wins, going to be very difficult. They have the schedule to do it. If they can get past Pitt in two weeks, they could go on a little run, by 5-1 when OSU comes to town. sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/west-virginia/schedule/?season=2023. He does that, turns it around, he may be there for a long, long time. Norvell in Tallahassee had some of the same issues and the fans were getting very restless, and he has it going on. If he is let go, He's not coming back to Troy, but he will land on his feet. He will never have coach again if he doesn't want to. My gut says he will most definitely coach again and for a long time. He is just too good of a coach. my .02 worth
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Post by fltrojan on Sept 7, 2023 11:56:50 GMT -6
Neal's success was very much because of VK. He could get very conservative in his play calling because VK could stop teams. Move to the Big 12 and high powered offensive teams and that doesn't work. WVU needs to be in the ACC also but that's another story
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Post by trojanocean on Sept 7, 2023 11:58:54 GMT -6
Looking like another losing year at WVU... I don't know if it looks like a losing year, honestly. They played a heck of a team in Penn St. and did so respectably with some very bright spots of huge potential against a stout opponent. If they stay healthy and focused, their schedule looks incredibly promising this year for a large winning season.
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Post by trojanocean on Sept 7, 2023 12:06:01 GMT -6
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Post by saintflorian on Sept 7, 2023 12:36:16 GMT -6
I don't think WVU has $13 million for buyout plus the ability to pay a new coach. WVU as a school has cut majors and terminated staff. I think he will be there for a while whether they like it or not. I would disagree. You are equating academic/university budgets to booster monies. Two different pools and sources. $13 million this year, buyout is $9 million next year. WVU/boosters will not sit around until the end of his contract to wait, especially in the new Big 12 and playoff. WVU is no Texas A&M but their booster pool is legit enough. (Hell, even little ole Troy recently bought out a coach) But let’s hope Neal wins enough where it’s a moot point.
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Post by utahwill on Sept 7, 2023 13:09:24 GMT -6
Wow, thank you for the replies. Your insights gave me a lot to consider.
The VK thing was a mess and came after his first year but our D actually improved the following couple years but I see what you are saying how WVU undercut NB early on.
He has tried very hard to connect to WV, perhaps to hard also he came into a conference that scoring and scoring a lot is important and his conservative approach did not fit in with the rest in the conference.
It has been a difficult year at WVU in athletics and beyond. The whole Huggins saga, the women’s BB coach sudden departure after success and surprise retirement of the Baseball coach after top 25 years coupled with the academic cuts and now overwhelming no confidence of the president.
I think WvU has the money for a buyout but it seems have reached a key point. Beating Pitt is simply a must, in fact the remainder of the month will likely reveal his future at WVU . WVU fans were used to wining and want that to return. If he can find 7 wins and a bowl win he will be in completely new place.
I hope Troy has a great season and you keep your coach for a long time. I now always check your scores or take a look on espn plus. Also I recently visited your state last spring and found it overwhelmingly beautiful with great people and fantastic food. It would be nice to see a tro-WVU matchup.
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Post by trojantke on Sept 12, 2023 8:24:38 GMT -6
Hello Try fans. Despite my user name I am a longtomeWVU for over 40 years and like any football fan have seen good and not so good times. I am wondering what Troy fans in reflection saw in Neal Brown as he has been our HC for five seasons now and has truly struggled. His biggest issues seem to be to motivate his team, questionable play calling, a suborns to try something different or replace platers who are underperforming. He says the right things but his followthrough isn not there. However he seems a good person, runs a clean program and can be good with donor Can you share any of your experiences as a fan from the Neal Brown days? He is on a very hot seat at WVU and in all honesty would you like to see him return to Troy where he had solid success? His struggles at WVU baffle me as I thought he was a great hire. Here's a fairly in depth interview on the subject:
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