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Post by Troystet on Dec 30, 2020 11:56:18 GMT -6
This is a huge question. Two (on paper) great recruiting classes. Is 2021 the year? IMO..NO. CL took over a team that had three 10 win seasons in a row and 3 bowl victories and has managed to go 5-7 and 5-6. Only two wins against teams with a winning record and one of those was a 7-5 FCS team. He is 1-7 against our fellow Sun Belt East members and has been absolutely humiliated and blown out twice by App St and once by ULL. CL was crushed by our two P5 opponents (putting BYU in that category) and we didn't play Tennessee and NC State so we wont know how bad they would have crushed us. The overall culture of the program has been dismantled and the HC currently has serious rumors out there questioning his moral character. Could we have a turn around in 2021?? Anything is possible but to this fan and alumni I don't see him doing it. Next season will tell. Feel free to post your observations and outlook as I am just one fan.
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Post by Possum on Dec 30, 2020 12:55:36 GMT -6
I agree with you.
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Post by bulldogtrojan on Dec 30, 2020 13:18:50 GMT -6
While I was not a fan of Hartwell as a person, he was a shrewd negotiator. When he hired NB he made sure it was with enough money to seal the deal and the money to attract the right coordinators and assistant coaches. As much as I liked Jeremy McClain, in my opinion, he-with one foot out the door, did not make sure that we had A. the right coach, B. he didn't manage to keep even the same level of funding for coordinators and assistants. C. He left and we had to hire a new AD. So, in one fell swoop we replaced the two most high profile positions in the athletic department with people who had never held those positions. I like BJ and commend him and his staff for pulling off a season when no one thought it could be done. However, you cannot tell me that the state of our athletic program at the end of 2018/beginning of 2019 would not have attracted someone who was already an AD. Again, BJ may have been the best candidate but I think that he also was the least experienced and probably agreed to a lesser salary to get the title. I do agree with a previous post that his biggest test as an AD will come a year from now when he truly has to deal with CL. In the meantime - why for all that is good and right has no one picked up the phone and called Al Pouge?! For the sake of the program some changes have to be made even if it is only for perception.
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Post by Hemi Man on Dec 30, 2020 13:59:01 GMT -6
While I was not a fan of Hartwell as a person, he was a shrewd negotiator. When he hired NB he made sure it was with enough money to seal the deal and the money to attract the right coordinators and assistant coaches. As much as I liked Jeremy McClain, in my opinion, he-with one foot out the door, did not make sure that we had A. the right coach, B. he didn't manage to keep even the same level of funding for coordinators and assistants. C. He left and we had to hire a new AD. So, in one fell swoop we replaced the two most high profile positions in the athletic department with people who had never held those positions. I like BJ and commend him and his staff for pulling off a season when no one thought it could be done. However, you cannot tell me that the state of our athletic program at the end of 2018/beginning of 2019 would not have attracted someone who was already an AD. Again, BJ may have been the best candidate but I think that he also was the least experienced and probably agreed to a lesser salary to get the title. I do agree with a previous post that his biggest test as an AD will come a year from now when he truly has to deal with CL. In the meantime - why for all that is good and right has no one picked up the phone and called Al Pouge?! For the sake of the program some changes have to be made even if it is only for perception. The salary pool for (The HC we don’t speak of) was higher than Nealâs in his first year. Hartwell had never been an AD and he was the best one to ever hold the job at Troy. Brentâs salary is open to the public. Iâm very pleased with what heâs done so far at Troy. I would love to see Al come back to Troy, but why would he jump on a sinking ship?
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Post by Troystet on Dec 30, 2020 14:19:37 GMT -6
While I was not a fan of Hartwell as a person, he was a shrewd negotiator. When he hired NB he made sure it was with enough money to seal the deal and the money to attract the right coordinators and assistant coaches. As much as I liked Jeremy McClain, in my opinion, he-with one foot out the door, did not make sure that we had A. the right coach, B. he didn't manage to keep even the same level of funding for coordinators and assistants. C. He left and we had to hire a new AD. So, in one fell swoop we replaced the two most high profile positions in the athletic department with people who had never held those positions. I like BJ and commend him and his staff for pulling off a season when no one thought it could be done. However, you cannot tell me that the state of our athletic program at the end of 2018/beginning of 2019 would not have attracted someone who was already an AD. Again, BJ may have been the best candidate but I think that he also was the least experienced and probably agreed to a lesser salary to get the title. I do agree with a previous post that his biggest test as an AD will come a year from now when he truly has to deal with CL. In the meantime - why for all that is good and right has no one picked up the phone and called Al Pouge?! For the sake of the program some changes have to be made even if it is only for perception. Do you really think BJ will have a say in the new HC? Everything begins and ends with Hawkins. AD at Troy is a name only basically. JH was the only one that stood up to Hawkins and I truly believe his micro managing everything was one of the reasons he left.
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Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Dec 30, 2020 14:22:53 GMT -6
While I was not a fan of Hartwell as a person, he was a shrewd negotiator. When he hired NB he made sure it was with enough money to seal the deal and the money to attract the right coordinators and assistant coaches. As much as I liked Jeremy McClain, in my opinion, he-with one foot out the door, did not make sure that we had A. the right coach, B. he didn't manage to keep even the same level of funding for coordinators and assistants. C. He left and we had to hire a new AD. So, in one fell swoop we replaced the two most high profile positions in the athletic department with people who had never held those positions. I like BJ and commend him and his staff for pulling off a season when no one thought it could be done. However, you cannot tell me that the state of our athletic program at the end of 2018/beginning of 2019 would not have attracted someone who was already an AD. Again, BJ may have been the best candidate but I think that he also was the least experienced and probably agreed to a lesser salary to get the title. I do agree with a previous post that his biggest test as an AD will come a year from now when he truly has to deal with CL. In the meantime - why for all that is good and right has no one picked up the phone and called Al Pouge?! For the sake of the program some changes have to be made even if it is only for perception. The salary pool for (The HC we don’t speak of) was hire than Nealâs in his first year. Hartwell had never been an AD and he was the best one to ever hold the job at Troy. Brentâs salary is open to the public. Iâm very pleased with what heâs done so far at Troy. I would love to see Al come back to Troy, but why would he jump on a sinking ship? Auburn is a sinking ship itself. Who knows if Harsin will retain those guys.
Maybe one day, we can get Jon Sumrall as HC, Al Pogue as DC, and Sean Reagan as OC.
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Post by Hemi Man on Dec 30, 2020 14:25:20 GMT -6
The salary pool for (The HC we don’t speak of) was hire than Nealâs in his first year. Hartwell had never been an AD and he was the best one to ever hold the job at Troy. Brentâs salary is open to the public. Iâm very pleased with what heâs done so far at Troy. I would love to see Al come back to Troy, but why would he jump on a sinking ship? Auburn is a sinking ship itself. Who knows if Harsin will retain those guys.
Maybe one day, we can get Jon Sumrall as HC, Al Pogue as DC, and Sean Reagan as OC.
Whether he retains him or not Pogue will get some so offers. I would be happy with that combo.
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Post by Troystet on Dec 30, 2020 14:28:42 GMT -6
The salary pool for (The HC we don’t speak of) was hire than Nealâs in his first year. Hartwell had never been an AD and he was the best one to ever hold the job at Troy. Brentâs salary is open to the public. Iâm very pleased with what heâs done so far at Troy. I would love to see Al come back to Troy, but why would he jump on a sinking ship? Auburn is a sinking ship itself. Who knows if Harsin will retain those guys.
Maybe one day, we can get Jon Sumrall as HC, Al Pogue as DC, and Sean Reagan as OC.
Jon will not come to Troy now. We could have kept the same culture and some of the same staff and been competing for conference championships. Hawkins screwed the pooch beyond recognition when he hired the bald headed head scratcher. By the time he leaves we will be in another dumpster fire rebuild the wall mode again. Any coach worth his salt could have kept this race car running. Instead CL took the wheels off, put it up on blocks and set it on fire. Truly sad and pathetic and this is what you get when you let an academic make decisions involving athletics
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Post by Mark Gainey on Dec 30, 2020 15:35:05 GMT -6
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Post by Troystet on Dec 30, 2020 15:41:24 GMT -6
You need to add Nero playing the fiddle as Rome burns and Kevin Bacon in Animal House going "all is well, remain calm"
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Post by trojantke on Dec 30, 2020 15:46:14 GMT -6
Just a differing opinion: We either believe our university and it's tradition and championship pedigree are important or we don't. If I stipulate that (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of) and he alone (or perhaps with the help of his equally maligned staff) is to blame for all the problems of the past two seasons, is the program we support so fragile that one bad coach ruins everything? We were holding up bowl trophies and Neal's voice was cracking saying "we beat LSU" not long ago but (The HC we don’t speak of) has done such a terrible job that now we're a dumpster fire of a program with no hope for a turn around once (The HC we don’t speak of) is gone? I feel fortunate that I don't believe that way.
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Post by troyjan95 on Dec 30, 2020 15:49:56 GMT -6
Let's go play golf. (The HC we don’t speak of) is already on the course. (The HC we don’t speak of) says, and when football rolls around in 2021 - 6 and 6, win the bowl game.
I am Very optimistic
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Post by Troystet on Dec 30, 2020 15:54:28 GMT -6
Just a differing opinion: We either believe our university and it's tradition and championship pedigree are important or we don't. If I stipulate that (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of) and he alone (or perhaps with the help of his equally maligned staff) is to blame for all the problems of the past two seasons, is the program we support so fragile that one bad coach ruins everything? We were holding up bowl trophies and Neal's voice was cracking saying "we beat LSU" not long ago but (The HC we don’t speak of) has done such a terrible job that now we're a dumpster fire of a program with no hope for a turn around once (The HC we don’t speak of) is gone? I feel fortunate that I don't believe that way. No one said there is no hope of putting out the dumpster fire and turning it around. It is obvious that the bald head scratcher isn't going to do it. It is going to take a coach with the intangibles of Neal Brown to do it. They will have to change the culture (again), instill discipline on and off the field (again) and teach the players how to win and get their swagger back (again). Instead of looking for these intangibles in a coach, Hawkins wanted a name and he hired a coach who was fired from his last job and the only job he could get was OC at Kansas (Until Hawkins said come to Troy). I hope and pray that they look for character and the intangibles that turned the culture around and the swagger to march into LSU for homecoming and hand them their head on a platter.
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Post by Mark Gainey on Dec 30, 2020 16:06:13 GMT -6
Just a differing opinion: We either believe our university and it's tradition and championship pedigree are important or we don't. If I stipulate that (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of) and he alone (or perhaps with the help of his equally maligned staff) is to blame for all the problems of the past two seasons, is the program we support so fragile that one bad coach ruins everything? We were holding up bowl trophies and Neal's voice was cracking saying "we beat LSU" not long ago but (The HC we don’t speak of) has done such a terrible job that now we're a dumpster fire of a program with no hope for a turn around once (The HC we don’t speak of) is gone? I feel fortunate that I don't believe that way. Something I learned a long time ago, my friend and fellow fanatic section partner: Everything rises and falls on leadership. Leadership at Troy starts with Jack, goes down to Brent, and on down from (The HC we don’t speak of) all the way down to the video manager and locker room custodians. Leadership is everything when it comes to an organization. And our leadership has lost its way. All of them. That's why I have ZERO hope for our football program in 2021. Much change needed. Will Troy endure? Absolutely! But this leadership has set us back literally decades. Rome fell, so any empire, nation, or organization can as well.
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Post by Mark Gainey on Dec 30, 2020 16:09:53 GMT -6
Let me be clear. I want to win as much as anyone. But for me it's not just about Wins and losses. It's not about X's & O's. It's about leading young men and developing them. It's about representing the University with integrity. That is why I'm so disgusted. I love Troy. Always will. However, I have no hope with this leadership.
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Post by buzzlightyear on Dec 30, 2020 18:24:32 GMT -6
While I was not a fan of Hartwell as a person, he was a shrewd negotiator. When he hired NB he made sure it was with enough money to seal the deal and the money to attract the right coordinators and assistant coaches. As much as I liked Jeremy McClain, in my opinion, he-with one foot out the door, did not make sure that we had A. the right coach, B. he didn't manage to keep even the same level of funding for coordinators and assistants. C. He left and we had to hire a new AD. So, in one fell swoop we replaced the two most high profile positions in the athletic department with people who had never held those positions. I like BJ and commend him and his staff for pulling off a season when no one thought it could be done. However, you cannot tell me that the state of our athletic program at the end of 2018/beginning of 2019 would not have attracted someone who was already an AD. Again, BJ may have been the best candidate but I think that he also was the least experienced and probably agreed to a lesser salary to get the title. I do agree with a previous post that his biggest test as an AD will come a year from now when he truly has to deal with CL. In the meantime - why for all that is good and right has no one picked up the phone and called Al Pouge?! For the sake of the program some changes have to be made even if it is only for perception. The salary pool for (The HC we don’t speak of) was hire than Nealâs in his first year. Hartwell had never been an AD and he was the best one to ever hold the job at Troy. Brentâs salary is open to the public. Iâm very pleased with what heâs done so far at Troy. I would love to see Al come back to Troy, but why would he jump on a sinking ship? âWhat? This ship sinkâ. - Capt Edward J Smith
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Post by saintflorian on Dec 31, 2020 6:25:03 GMT -6
The salary pool for (The HC we don’t speak of) was hire than Nealâs in his first year. Hartwell had never been an AD and he was the best one to ever hold the job at Troy. Brentâs salary is open to the public. Iâm very pleased with what heâs done so far at Troy. I would love to see Al come back to Troy, but why would he jump on a sinking ship? Auburn is a sinking ship itself. Who knows if Harsin will retain those guys.
Maybe one day, we can get Jon Sumrall as HC, Al Pogue as DC, and Sean Reagan as OC.
Hope this was just in jest. No. Just because you coached at Troy before doesnât need to be a prerequisite for one is chosen for every single position of the staff, especially HC.
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Post by saintflorian on Dec 31, 2020 6:30:25 GMT -6
While I was not a fan of Hartwell as a person, he was a shrewd negotiator. When he hired NB he made sure it was with enough money to seal the deal and the money to attract the right coordinators and assistant coaches. As much as I liked Jeremy McClain, in my opinion, he-with one foot out the door, did not make sure that we had A. the right coach, B. he didn't manage to keep even the same level of funding for coordinators and assistants. C. He left and we had to hire a new AD. So, in one fell swoop we replaced the two most high profile positions in the athletic department with people who had never held those positions. I like BJ and commend him and his staff for pulling off a season when no one thought it could be done. However, you cannot tell me that the state of our athletic program at the end of 2018/beginning of 2019 would not have attracted someone who was already an AD. Again, BJ may have been the best candidate but I think that he also was the least experienced and probably agreed to a lesser salary to get the title. I do agree with a previous post that his biggest test as an AD will come a year from now when he truly has to deal with CL. In the meantime - why for all that is good and right has no one picked up the phone and called Al Pouge?! For the sake of the program some changes have to be made even if it is only for perception. Just a differing opinion: We either believe our university and it's tradition and championship pedigree are important or we don't. If I stipulate that (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of) and he alone (or perhaps with the help of his equally maligned staff) is to blame for all the problems of the past two seasons, is the program we support so fragile that one bad coach ruins everything? We were holding up bowl trophies and Neal's voice was cracking saying "we beat LSU" not long ago but (The HC we don’t speak of) has done such a terrible job that now we're a dumpster fire of a program with no hope for a turn around once (The HC we don’t speak of) is gone? I feel fortunate that I don't believe that way. Something I learned a long time ago, my friend and fellow fanatic section partner: Everything rises and falls on leadership. Leadership at Troy starts with Jack, goes down to Brent, and on down from (The HC we don’t speak of) all the way down to the video manager and locker room custodians. Leadership is everything when it comes to an organization. And our leadership has lost its way. All of them. That's why I have ZERO hope for our football program in 2021. Much change needed. Will Troy endure? Absolutely! But this leadership has set us back literally decades. Rome fell, so any empire, nation, or organization can as well. Good posts that sum it up. We have rookie AD and HC, that donât know really how to handle the positions, that were chosen through a very quick, easy and lazy process, headed by our ultra power controlling Chancellor. Yes Leadership is at a minimum or at least unknown/floundering at our (3) power positions and it is showing big time.
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Post by California Trojan on Dec 31, 2020 6:59:32 GMT -6
What Does 2021 Hold For The Troy Football Program??
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Post by trojantke on Dec 31, 2020 9:24:17 GMT -6
My goal is never to feed into the negativity that runs rampant on this board, but I think y'all are missing the actual nightmare scenario here. Take off your doom goggles and actually look at the 2021 schedule. 6-6 is the baseline with the talent we have taking into account the failings of the staff. I believe it's out of a protection instinct that I see people posting "we'll be 1-11" or "2021 = pain". That isn't the worst case scenario, fellas. If you are really worried about (The HC we don’t speak of) (and now Chancellor Hawkins for some reason whose service to this University should be above reproach), 1-11 is the dream. 8-4 is the nightmare. And by my estimation when I look at that schedule, we're living on Elm Street.
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Post by Troystet on Dec 31, 2020 10:08:34 GMT -6
My goal is never to feed into the negativity that runs rampant on this board, but I think y'all are missing the actual nightmare scenario here. Take off your doom goggles and actually look at the 2021 schedule. 6-6 is the baseline with the talent we have taking into account the failings of the staff. I believe it's out of a protection instinct that I see people posting "we'll be 1-11" or "2021 = pain". That isn't the worst case scenario, fellas. If you are really worried about (The HC we don’t speak of) (and now Chancellor Hawkins for some reason whose service to this University should be above reproach), 1-11 is the dream. 8-4 is the nightmare. And by my estimation when I look at that schedule, we're living on Elm Street. I won't even get into the three seasons before head scratcher arrived but we have had the supposed two best recruiting classes in school history and we hope to go 6-6. Wow. I guess Hawkins idea of mediocrity and failure differs from ours.
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Post by trojantke on Dec 31, 2020 10:50:12 GMT -6
My goal is never to feed into the negativity that runs rampant on this board, but I think y'all are missing the actual nightmare scenario here. Take off your doom goggles and actually look at the 2021 schedule. 6-6 is the baseline with the talent we have taking into account the failings of the staff. I believe it's out of a protection instinct that I see people posting "we'll be 1-11" or "2021 = pain". That isn't the worst case scenario, fellas. If you are really worried about (The HC we don’t speak of) (and now Chancellor Hawkins for some reason whose service to this University should be above reproach), 1-11 is the dream. 8-4 is the nightmare. And by my estimation when I look at that schedule, we're living on Elm Street. I won't even get into the three seasons before head scratcher arrived but we have had the supposed two best recruiting classes in school history and we hope to go 6-6. Wow. I guess Hawkins idea of mediocrity and failure differs from ours. You are either intentionally not understanding my post or I didn't communicate it clearly enough. You guys have won. I concede. (The HC we don’t speak of) is the worst football coach in the history of football or coaches, stagecoach or otherwise. Ok? Now that we've stipulated that the pitchforks are correct and (The HC we don’t speak of) is the worst, can we have a realistic conversation about next season? I never said "I'm hoping for 6-6" or "We should be excited to go 6-6". I literally typed out that I believe 6-6 is the baseline given the schedule. You are confident, as you've said on other threads, that Troy will win 1 or 2 games next year and I'm trying to caution you: that doesn't seem realistic. Your prediction would be easy to deal with. Troy goes 0-12 and (The HC we don’t speak of) is run out of town. You aren't dealing with the real concern that Troy goes 8-4. You can bring up what the overall record would be until you are blue in the face, but Brent Jones will have a tough decision to make if that becomes reality. And we all should be thankful that Hawkins has not allowed this institution to settle for mediocrity. In his 30 years at the helm, Troy's transformation has been miraculous. In the grand scheme of things, yelling about him making bad decisions about football seems to lack perspective.
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Post by Troystet on Dec 31, 2020 10:59:27 GMT -6
Hawkins did a great job as Chancellor but now he thinks he is the University. He has his finger on every decision that is made and I'm sorry, he is not qualified to be making the decision on athletic hires and especially football coaches. Former players of every era right now (I was contacted) are begging to have a say and opinion on the next hire. At least listen to what players know we need. He didn't listen to his existing players, those that played under the prior staff and those close to the program in this last hire and look what it got us. I know for a fact several HOF inductees that want input into the next coach. Not saying they want to make the decision but have input into what the program needs. At least listen to input.
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Post by saintflorian on Dec 31, 2020 11:34:57 GMT -6
My goal is never to feed into the negativity that runs rampant on this board, but I think y'all are missing the actual nightmare scenario here. Take off your doom goggles and actually look at the 2021 schedule. 6-6 is the baseline with the talent we have taking into account the failings of the staff. I believe it's out of a protection instinct that I see people posting "we'll be 1-11" or "2021 = pain". That isn't the worst case scenario, fellas. If you are really worried about (The HC we don’t speak of) (and now Chancellor Hawkins for some reason whose service to this University should be above reproach), 1-11 is the dream. 8-4 is the nightmare. And by my estimation when I look at that schedule, we're living on Elm Street. troyfans.com/thread/6213/2021-time-keys-belize
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Post by troyfan on Dec 31, 2020 19:40:08 GMT -6
Even if we go 14-0 in 2021 CL wont get looked at for a bigger school after 2 less than stellar years. Anything .500 or better probably gets him a contract extension unfortunately. I'm hoping for 5-7 and relieved of duties by Halloween.
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