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Post by Troystet on Nov 18, 2020 13:32:51 GMT -6
For those who didn't think Jon Sumrall wasn't qualified you better take a look at Kent St currently. 34 year old coach who was a CO/OC and WR coach before getting the Kent St job. Watched them last night and they are looking awesome especially offensively. Having lived 3 miles from the Kent St campus and all my family in Akron I can tell you they have the worst stadium and facilities in the MAC. And they are only paying him $440,000. Turned them around by season two and they look really, really good this season. They play at a pace that is mind boggling
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Post by trojantke on Nov 18, 2020 13:54:18 GMT -6
I was rooting for Jon to get the job as well, but it's very hard to compare any team or coach to any other during this season. I love seeing the MACtion during the week but their whole set-up for this season is just a write-off in terms of comparisons.
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Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Nov 18, 2020 14:03:23 GMT -6
For those who didn't think Jon Sumrall wasn't qualified you better take a look at Kent St currently. 34 year old coach who was a CO/OC and WR coach before getting the Kent St job. Watched them last night and they are looking awesome especially offensively. Having lived 3 miles from the Kent St campus and all my family in Akron I can tell you they have the worst stadium and facilities in the MAC. And they are only paying him $440,000. Turned them around by season two and they look really, really good this season. They play at a pace that is mind boggling They also play in the weakest division, in the weakest conference, in FBS.
And like you said, Kent State's coach was a Co-OC for three seasons before being a head coach. He still went from being a WR coach to moving up to an OC.
Most first time head coaches were previously an OC or a DC, simply because that's how the rungs on the ladder to being a head coach works.
It's like business management. Are you more likely to hire a regional manager for a CEO position, or a CFO for a CEO position?
The CFO has managed more people, had more responsibility, has more experience... so they're more likely to immediately be successful as a CEO. A regional manager would likely be in over their head until they got enough experience.
That's why I'd rather see Jon Sumrall be an FBS DC before being a head coach.
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Post by foulpolephenom on Nov 18, 2020 14:32:30 GMT -6
For those who didn't think Jon Sumrall wasn't qualified you better take a look at Kent St currently. 34 year old coach who was a CO/OC and WR coach before getting the Kent St job. Watched them last night and they are looking awesome especially offensively. Having lived 3 miles from the Kent St campus and all my family in Akron I can tell you they have the worst stadium and facilities in the MAC. And they are only paying him $440,000. Turned them around by season two and they look really, really good this season. They play at a pace that is mind boggling They also play in the weakest division, in the weakest conference, in FBS.
And like you said, Kent State's coach was a Co-OC for three seasons before being a head coach. He still went from being a WR coach to moving up to an OC.
Most first time head coaches were previously an OC or a DC, simply because that's how the rungs on the ladder to being a head coach works.
It's like business management. Are you more likely to hire a regional manager for a CEO position, or a CFO for a CEO position?
The CFO has managed more people, had more responsibility, has more experience... so they're more likely to immediately be successful as a CEO. A regional manager would likely be in over their head until they got enough experience.
That's why I'd rather see Jon Sumrall be an FBS DC before being a head coach.
But what does calling plays as a DC have anything to do with running a program?
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Post by Troystet on Nov 18, 2020 14:44:57 GMT -6
For those who didn't think Jon Sumrall wasn't qualified you better take a look at Kent St currently. 34 year old coach who was a CO/OC and WR coach before getting the Kent St job. Watched them last night and they are looking awesome especially offensively. Having lived 3 miles from the Kent St campus and all my family in Akron I can tell you they have the worst stadium and facilities in the MAC. And they are only paying him $440,000. Turned them around by season two and they look really, really good this season. They play at a pace that is mind boggling They also play in the weakest division, in the weakest conference, in FBS.
And like you said, Kent State's coach was a Co-OC for three seasons before being a head coach. He still went from being a WR coach to moving up to an OC.
Most first time head coaches were previously an OC or a DC, simply because that's how the rungs on the ladder to being a head coach works.
It's like business management. Are you more likely to hire a regional manager for a CEO position, or a CFO for a CEO position?
The CFO has managed more people, had more responsibility, has more experience... so they're more likely to immediately be successful as a CEO. A regional manager would likely be in over their head until they got enough experience.
That's why I'd rather see Jon Sumrall be an FBS DC before being a head coach.
Who cares. We are kicking last second field goals to beat a mediocre FCS team in arguably the weakest FCS conference in FCS
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Post by Troystet on Nov 18, 2020 14:51:08 GMT -6
And some said you had to have facilities to win and recruit. How would you like to recruit to this facility..and that's the good side and you have Akron U. literally 15 minutes away with a new stadium, indoor facility etc. Anyone that can win at Kent St is one heck of a coach
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Post by saintflorian on Nov 18, 2020 15:01:39 GMT -6
For those who didn't think Jon Sumrall wasn't qualified you better take a look at Kent St currently. 34 year old coach who was a CO/OC and WR coach before getting the Kent St job. Watched them last night and they are looking awesome especially offensively. Having lived 3 miles from the Kent St campus and all my family in Akron I can tell you they have the worst stadium and facilities in the MAC. And they are only paying him $440,000. Turned them around by season two and they look really, really good this season. They play at a pace that is mind boggling The only, and only mutual decision point when compare this guy to JS is their age. Every other data point is different. Trying to equate and rationalize it to draw a line to JS is nonexistent and misleading. If you have additional points to connect besides age please say.
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Post by Troystet on Nov 18, 2020 15:07:57 GMT -6
For those who didn't think Jon Sumrall wasn't qualified you better take a look at Kent St currently. 34 year old coach who was a CO/OC and WR coach before getting the Kent St job. Watched them last night and they are looking awesome especially offensively. Having lived 3 miles from the Kent St campus and all my family in Akron I can tell you they have the worst stadium and facilities in the MAC. And they are only paying him $440,000. Turned them around by season two and they look really, really good this season. They play at a pace that is mind boggling The only, and only mutual decision point when compare this guy to JS is their age. Every other data point is different. Trying to equate and rationalize it to draw a line to JS is nonexistent and misleading. If you have additional points to connect besides age please say. My only point is it can work. What could Jon have done? we will never know. The point was the administration narrowed it to two candidates and IMO it is obvious they picked the wrong one because I don't think Jon could do worse than where we are at right now. From everyone I know inside the program including two former players I got to know, he would have kept the culture the same and that would have been huge
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Post by saintflorian on Nov 18, 2020 16:24:00 GMT -6
The only, and only mutual decision point when compare this guy to JS is their age. Every other data point is different. Trying to equate and rationalize it to draw a line to JS is nonexistent and misleading. If you have additional points to connect besides age please say. My only point is it can work. What could Jon have done? we will never know. The point was the administration narrowed it to two candidates and IMO it is obvious they picked the wrong one because I don't think Jon could do worse than where we are at right now. From everyone I know inside the program including two former players I got to know, he would have kept the culture the same and that would have been huge Understand. But when people state “well, my guy couldn’t have done worse” is not a glowing endorsement of positive possibilities. And one thing I have learned is it can always be or get worse. JS could have been better or worse. No need to what if. IMO, JS and CL shouldn’t have even been in the final two. Both are good guys but we’re not the best fit for Troy at the time. I think the final two candidates were lazy azz picks by an AD that already had his bags packed and looking for the ride out of town. He didn’t want to put in the work.
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Post by Trojans1andAll on Nov 18, 2020 17:50:08 GMT -6
I don't think the real question here is, "Would you hire Jon Sumrall?"
I think the real question is, "Would you hire Jon Sumrall over a successful I-AA coach?"
My answer would be no.
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Post by cornhole on Nov 18, 2020 18:12:21 GMT -6
My only point is it can work. What could Jon have done? we will never know. The point was the administration narrowed it to two candidates and IMO it is obvious they picked the wrong one because I don't think Jon could do worse than where we are at right now. From everyone I know inside the program including two former players I got to know, he would have kept the culture the same and that would have been huge Understand. But when people state “well, my guy couldn’t have done worse” is not a glowing endorsement of positive possibilities. And one thing I have learned is it can always be or get worse. JS could have been better or worse. No need to what if. IMO, JS and CL shouldn’t have even been in the final two. Both are good guys but we’re not the best fit for Troy at the time. I think the final two candidates were lazy azz picks by an AD that already had his bags packed and looking for the ride out of town. He didn’t want to put in the work. There were several others on the 9-day Coach Search committee in addition to AD What was his Name? . Not sure What was his Name? made the sole and/or final decision. A 9-day Div I head coaching decision sure lends incredibility to the process.
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Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Nov 18, 2020 18:29:49 GMT -6
They also play in the weakest division, in the weakest conference, in FBS.
And like you said, Kent State's coach was a Co-OC for three seasons before being a head coach. He still went from being a WR coach to moving up to an OC.
Most first time head coaches were previously an OC or a DC, simply because that's how the rungs on the ladder to being a head coach works.
It's like business management. Are you more likely to hire a regional manager for a CEO position, or a CFO for a CEO position?
The CFO has managed more people, had more responsibility, has more experience... so they're more likely to immediately be successful as a CEO. A regional manager would likely be in over their head until they got enough experience.
That's why I'd rather see Jon Sumrall be an FBS DC before being a head coach.
But what does calling plays as a DC have anything to do with running a program? A lot, IMO.
As a DC, you manage the defensive players, oversee the assistant coaches, develop the defensive game plan, design plays, and call plays for the defense during the games.
You're given more control and it prepares you to be a head coach. It's simply getting experience before jumping too far ahead. I think Jon Sumrall is a great coach and a great motivator... I think he will be a great HC one day.
But which do you think would serve Jon Sumrall better in preparation for being an FBS-level head coach? Getting experience as an FBS-level DC (maybe even being a head coach of a small FCS school).... or just skipping straight ahead to being an FBS head coach after being primarily a position coach for the past 8 years?
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Post by foulpolephenom on Nov 19, 2020 7:49:52 GMT -6
But what does calling plays as a DC have anything to do with running a program? A lot.
As a DC, you manage the defensive players, oversee the assistant coaches, develop the defensive game plan, design plays, and call plays for the defense during the games.
You're given more control and it prepares you to be a head coach. It's simply getting experience before jumping too far ahead. I think Jon Sumrall is a great coach and a great motivator... I think he will be a great HC one day.
But which do you think would serve Jon Sumrall better in preparation for being an FBS head coach? Getting experience as an FBS-level DC, or maybe being a head coach of an FCS school.... or just skipping straight ahead to being an FBS head coach after being primarily a position coach for the past 8 years?
You say that but look at the offensive side of the ball for us. Do you think Pugh is doing all those things or that (The HC we don’t speak of) is ha doing most of the duties? Many of those roles we are used to have changed with the way programs have changed.
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Post by Troystet on Nov 19, 2020 7:57:29 GMT -6
But what does calling plays as a DC have anything to do with running a program? A lot, IMO.
As a DC, you manage the defensive players, oversee the assistant coaches, develop the defensive game plan, design plays, and call plays for the defense during the games.
You're given more control and it prepares you to be a head coach. It's simply getting experience before jumping too far ahead. I think Jon Sumrall is a great coach and a great motivator... I think he will be a great HC one day.
But which do you think would serve Jon Sumrall better in preparation for being an FBS-level head coach? Getting experience as an FBS-level DC (maybe even being a head coach of a small FCS school).... or just skipping straight ahead to being an FBS head coach after being primarily a position coach for the past 8 years?
So we went with a OC who never stayed at a school past "ONE" season and expected him to build and maintain a program. He didn't even know how to prepare for season TWO at a school
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Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Nov 19, 2020 8:01:09 GMT -6
A lot.
As a DC, you manage the defensive players, oversee the assistant coaches, develop the defensive game plan, design plays, and call plays for the defense during the games.
You're given more control and it prepares you to be a head coach. It's simply getting experience before jumping too far ahead. I think Jon Sumrall is a great coach and a great motivator... I think he will be a great HC one day.
But which do you think would serve Jon Sumrall better in preparation for being an FBS head coach? Getting experience as an FBS-level DC, or maybe being a head coach of an FCS school.... or just skipping straight ahead to being an FBS head coach after being primarily a position coach for the past 8 years?
You say that but look at the offensive side of the ball for us. Do you think Pugh is doing all those things or that (The HC we don’t speak of) is ha doing most of the duties? Many of those roles we are used to have changed with the way programs have changed. I think (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of) is doing all those things on the offensive side of the ball, simply because he has made that known. I do believe Pugh, though, still has some responsibility with helping to manage the offense though... from personnel, to players, to strategies, etc. And maybe Pugh does help (The HC we don’t speak of) from a playcalling perspective sometimes when it comes to seeing the defensive alignments?? I like Sumrall a lot, and I would like to see him be HC at Troy one day. I believe he would bring a lot of the passion and energy back to the program that (The HC we don’t speak of) kind of lacks. I just very simply believe that Sumrall being a coordinator beforehand would prepare him well for that.
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Post by Troystet on Nov 19, 2020 8:01:12 GMT -6
I don't think the real question here is, "Would you hire Jon Sumrall?" I think the real question is, "Would you hire Jon Sumrall over a successful I-AA coach?" My answer would be no. I don't have a problem hiring a succesful young 1-AA coach but who is out there right now? NDSU HC (been there one season and me and you could coach that program at this point), James Madison? (The prior coach was the one), Kennesaw St? (great coach but polar opposite offenses). If you know of others I would love to hear because I have ZERO problem with the right one
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Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Nov 19, 2020 8:04:56 GMT -6
A lot, IMO.
As a DC, you manage the defensive players, oversee the assistant coaches, develop the defensive game plan, design plays, and call plays for the defense during the games.
You're given more control and it prepares you to be a head coach. It's simply getting experience before jumping too far ahead. I think Jon Sumrall is a great coach and a great motivator... I think he will be a great HC one day.
But which do you think would serve Jon Sumrall better in preparation for being an FBS-level head coach? Getting experience as an FBS-level DC (maybe even being a head coach of a small FCS school).... or just skipping straight ahead to being an FBS head coach after being primarily a position coach for the past 8 years?
So we went with a OC who never stayed at a school past "ONE" season and expected him to build and maintain a program. He didn't even know how to prepare for season TWO at a school I don't like the fact that (The HC we don’t speak of) hasn't stayed in one place very long. But again, he has at least gotten experience managing an entire unit of a football team... even if his stays were short-lived...
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Post by Hemi Man on Nov 19, 2020 9:01:05 GMT -6
You say that but look at the offensive side of the ball for us. Do you think Pugh is doing all those things or that (The HC we don’t speak of) is ha doing most of the duties? Many of those roles we are used to have changed with the way programs have changed. I think (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of) is doing all those things on the offensive side of the ball, simply because he has made that known. I do believe Pugh, though, still has some responsibility with helping to manage the offense though... from personnel, to players, to strategies, etc. And maybe Pugh does help (The HC we don’t speak of) from a playcalling perspective sometimes when it comes to seeing the defensive alignments?? I like Sumrall a lot, and I would like to see him be HC at Troy one day. I believe he would bring a lot of the passion and energy back to the program that (The HC we don’t speak of) kind of lacks. I just very simply believe that Sumrall being a coordinator beforehand would prepare him well for that. Itâs clear that being an OC did not prepare (The HC we don’t speak of) to me a head coach. Zero attention to detail. Heâs an OC running the entire show.
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Post by Troystet on Nov 19, 2020 10:34:58 GMT -6
I think (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of) is doing all those things on the offensive side of the ball, simply because he has made that known. I do believe Pugh, though, still has some responsibility with helping to manage the offense though... from personnel, to players, to strategies, etc. And maybe Pugh does help (The HC we don’t speak of) from a playcalling perspective sometimes when it comes to seeing the defensive alignments?? I like Sumrall a lot, and I would like to see him be HC at Troy one day. I believe he would bring a lot of the passion and energy back to the program that (The HC we don’t speak of) kind of lacks. I just very simply believe that Sumrall being a coordinator beforehand would prepare him well for that. Itâs clear that being an OC did not prepare (The HC we don’t speak of) to me a head coach. Zero attention to detail. Heâs an OC running the entire show.
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Post by Troystet on Nov 19, 2020 10:43:12 GMT -6
My only point is it can work. What could Jon have done? we will never know. The point was the administration narrowed it to two candidates and IMO it is obvious they picked the wrong one because I don't think Jon could do worse than where we are at right now. From everyone I know inside the program including two former players I got to know, he would have kept the culture the same and that would have been huge Understand. But when people state “well, my guy couldn’t have done worse” is not a glowing endorsement of positive possibilities. And one thing I have learned is it can always be or get worse. JS could have been better or worse. No need to what if. IMO, JS and CL shouldn’t have even been in the final two. Both are good guys but we’re not the best fit for Troy at the time. I think the final two candidates were lazy azz picks by an AD that already had his bags packed and looking for the ride out of town. He didn’t want to put in the work. I can partially understand that thought. The year NB left was not a good year to being looking for a HC. One Obvious coach we missed on by a month was the James Madison coach who had taken teams to the Nat championship in both D2 and FCS and beat NDSU for the title. I don't know who they contacted or who was interested in the job. I do know there were not a ton of choices that year. McClain never impressed me as an AD but we got spoiled with Hartwell as he was both a good AD and reached out to fans and former players
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Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Nov 19, 2020 10:53:33 GMT -6
I think (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of) is doing all those things on the offensive side of the ball, simply because he has made that known. I do believe Pugh, though, still has some responsibility with helping to manage the offense though... from personnel, to players, to strategies, etc. And maybe Pugh does help (The HC we don’t speak of) from a playcalling perspective sometimes when it comes to seeing the defensive alignments?? I like Sumrall a lot, and I would like to see him be HC at Troy one day. I believe he would bring a lot of the passion and energy back to the program that (The HC we don’t speak of) kind of lacks. I just very simply believe that Sumrall being a coordinator beforehand would prepare him well for that. Itâs clear that being an OC did not prepare (The HC we don’t speak of) to me a head coach. Zero attention to detail. Heâs an OC running the entire show. (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of) is an enigma.
Sumrall would actually take away some beneficial things by being an FBS coordinator. Quite honestly, if the current DC at Kentucky (Brad White) winds up getting hired away, I think Sumrall is likely to be Kentucky's next DC.
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Post by cornhole on Nov 19, 2020 11:07:02 GMT -6
Understand. But when people state âwell, my guy couldnât have done worseâ is not a glowing endorsement of positive possibilities. And one thing I have learned is it can always be or get worse. JS could have been better or worse. No need to what if. IMO, JS and CL shouldnât have even been in the final two. Both are good guys but weâre not the best fit for Troy at the time. I think the final two candidates were lazy azz picks by an AD that already had his bags packed and looking for the ride out of town. He didnât want to put in the work. I can partially understand that thought. The year NB left was not a good year to being looking for a HC. One Obvious coach we missed on my a month was the James Madison coach who had taken teams to the Nat championship in both D2 and FCS and beat NDSU for the title. I don't know who they contacted or who was interested in the job. I do know there were not a ton of choices that year. McClain never impressed me as an AD but we got spoiled with Hartwell as he was both a good AD and reached out to fans and former players I agree that Troy got spoiled with the Hartwell years at AD. Let's face it, he inherited a dumpster fire of a program with "tenured", stale coaches for many Programs and ranked last in the Sunbelt Boobas standings (misspell intended). In addition to doing the necessary dirty work, Hartwell was Fan friendly and understood the importance of Fan engagement. Of all his hires, I only remember the one clunker, men's Basketball. Overall, in his 2.5 years Hartwell reversed Troy's athletic direction and left a much better program to follow. McLain on the other hand was certainly no Hartwell personality but had his strengths. He oversaw the huge task of planning/constructing the new end zone project, consuming much of his attention while here. He also put in much time replacing Cunningham and landed Scott Cross. He was NOT the sole decision-maker in the (The HC we don’t speak of) hire. As a matter of fact he may have had a lesser role in that decision assuming his bosses were aware of his departure intentions?? Man, did McLain inherit a dumpster fire in Hattiesburg.
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Post by pcbtrojan on Nov 19, 2020 11:13:58 GMT -6
Lets see you have a coach that turned Troy around. Instilled discipline, had us going in the right direction. Got an offer at a larger school no big deal. So would you have a guy that learned on the guy that turned it around staff or some guy that’s staff hoped for various reasons under multiple coaches. And if you think you can’t promote from within and be successful you might want to look at pictures of the staffs that were around 1979 to 1980. And again at the staff under HC Gailey. Nah it could never work hiring from within. A little hint both of these coaches have championship rings.
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Post by saintflorian on Nov 19, 2020 13:02:37 GMT -6
A lot, IMO.
As a DC, you manage the defensive players, oversee the assistant coaches, develop the defensive game plan, design plays, and call plays for the defense during the games.
You're given more control and it prepares you to be a head coach. It's simply getting experience before jumping too far ahead. I think Jon Sumrall is a great coach and a great motivator... I think he will be a great HC one day.
But which do you think would serve Jon Sumrall better in preparation for being an FBS-level head coach? Getting experience as an FBS-level DC (maybe even being a head coach of a small FCS school).... or just skipping straight ahead to being an FBS head coach after being primarily a position coach for the past 8 years?
So we went with a OC who never stayed at a school past "ONE" season and expected him to build and maintain a program. He didn't even know how to prepare for season TWO at a school 2003–2004 GA College 1 2005 QB Coach College 2 2006–2008 TE Coach College 3 2009–2010 OC / QB Coach College 4 2011 Analyst College 5 2012 AHC / QB Coach College 6 2013–2016 WR Coach College 7 2017 OC College 8 In 2018, given the opportunity you would not hired this coach at Troy.
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Post by Troystet on Nov 19, 2020 13:32:04 GMT -6
So we went with a OC who never stayed at a school past "ONE" season and expected him to build and maintain a program. He didn't even know how to prepare for season TWO at a school 2003–2004 GA College 1 2005 QB Coach College 2 2006–2008 TE Coach College 3 2009–2010 OC / QB Coach College 4 2011 Analyst College 5 2012 AHC / QB Coach College 6 2013–2016 WR Coach College 7 2017 OC College 8 In 2018, given the opportunity you would not hired this coach at Troy. Kent St did and he went 7-6 year two and a bowl win and 3-0 this year with one of the top offenses in the country. And he did it with lousy facilities and the worst stadium in the MAC. Like I said. Some coaches have the IT factor and some don't. Troy said Levi was the 3rd best qb on the team. Given a shot he proved he was not only #1 but one of the best to play for Troy. Some guys are game players, some coaches are Head Coaches. You never know till you give them a shot. And our choice was 110% the wrong one. Evidently the Kent AD saw something or figured they had nothing to lose. But hey, at least we don't have the Akron AD who evidently thought a guy who coached 3 years of D3 and went 4-8 and 5-7 in FCS was a FBS coach. They are 0-15 under that choice so at least we aren't them
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