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Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Nov 5, 2019 13:19:03 GMT -6
Just some thought...
We're only 3 possessions, or even 3 bad luck scenarios away from being 6-2 and probably not calling for (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of)'s head.
*We lost to Southern Miss by 5 points. If one of those drives into the redzone had not stalled because of penalties, we likely score a TD and win that game.
*We lost to Arkansas State by 7 points. If Barker doesn't fumble the football, that game looks totally different. Instead, the fumble by Barker that was returned for a TD made it a 14-0 game very fast, and (The HC we don’t speak of) had to stay in catch-up mode all game long. The Red Wolves also converted a crazy fake-punt that no one expected, which led to another score for them.
*We lost to Coastal Carolina by 1 point. We win that game if that ridiculous pass-interference penalty isn't called on their 2-PT conversion... or even if that obvious hold on Marcus Webb is called against CCU.
I know we're giving this coaching staff a hard time because we probably shouldn't be sitting here at 3-5... and I know we compare our situation to App State's situation when it comes to having a new coaching staff. But they didn't have an issue with players transferring, retiring, and they had less losses to graduation on defense.
We had 8 players on defense leave the program, and a 9th player (who was a starter) become academically ineligible. We had 7 players on offense leave the program, or get injured for the entire season. Here's the list:
DEFENSE:
*DE Rasool Clemons (medically retired in May) *DB Adarius Wesley (medically retired in June) *DB Marcus Jones (transferred to Houston, was a starter)
*SPEAR Tyler Murray (transferred to Charlotte, was a starter) *LB Tron Folsom (grad transferred to Colorado State, was a starter) *DT Antoine Barker (entered transfer portal in June, was a starter) *DB Terence Dunlap (academically ineligible, will return in 2020, was a starter) *S Koby Perry (kicked off of team) *S Kyler Knudsen (no longer on team)
OFFENSE: *RB BJ Smith (injured for the season, starter) *WR Demontrez Brown (injured for the season, splitting starts with Reggie Todd) *QB Sawyer Smith (grad transferred to Kentucky, technically a starter) *TE Richard Hallman (entered transfer portal in June) *WR Daniel Crowell (transferred to Jackson State) *OL Zach Branner (graduated, quit football, partial starter) *WR Bee Hinton (transferred to Jackson State)
That's 16 players that left the program after recruiting was already finished. Most of these guys left after spring practice or during the summer, which is even worse.
So to be fair in all of this, (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of) and Brandon Hall were dealt a crap hand with the defense. Even if Vic Koenning was still here, do you really think he would've done a fantastic job with Marcus Jones, Tyler Murray, Tron Folsom, and Antoine Barker leaving? And then having another starting DB become ineligible and two more guys medically retire? I mean, he's struggling mightily at WVU with those young DB's that are having to play.
Overall, I think we'll be fine come next season. It's been a year with bad luck, bad bounces, and bad calls. We get a crap-ton of starters and backups back next season. All we need is for a QB to fill in for Barker, and I don't see that being an issue. We have a lot of QB's... and one thing (The HC we don’t speak of) can do is develop QB's... and if you can't tell that by how Barker's pocket awareness, footwork, velocity, spiral, and progressions have improved since last season, then your blind. Barker's mechanics are way smoother this year. He's even starting to be considered a late-round sleeper pick in the 2020 NFL Draft.
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Post by Bubba the Trojan on Nov 5, 2019 13:34:01 GMT -6
Just some thought...
We're only 3 possessions, or even 3 bad luck scenarios away from being 6-2 and probably not calling for (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of)'s head.
*We lost to Southern Miss by 5 points. If one of those drives into the redzone had not stalled because of penalties, we likely score a TD and win that game.
*We lost to Arkansas State by 7 points. If Barker doesn't fumble the football, that game looks totally different. Instead, the fumble by Barker that was returned for a TD made it a 14-0 game very fast, and (The HC we don’t speak of) had to stay in catch-up mode all game long. The Red Wolves also converted a crazy fake-punt that no one expected, which led to another score for them.
*We lost to Coastal Carolina by 1 point. We win that game if that ridiculous pass-interference penalty isn't called... or even if that obvious hold on Marcus Webb is called against CCU.
I know we're giving this coaching staff a hard time because we probably shouldn't be sitting here at 3-5... and I know we compare our situation to App State's situation when it comes to having a new coaching staff. But they didn't have an issue with players transferring, retiring, and they had less losses to graduation on defense.
We had 8 players on defense leave the program, and an 9th player (who was a starter) become academically ineligible. We had 7 players on offense leave the program, or get injured for the entire season. Here's the list:
DEFENSE:
*DE Rasool Clemons (medically retired in May) *DB Adarius Wesley (medically retired in June) *DB Marcus Jones (transferred to Houston, was a starter)
*SPEAR Tyler Murray (transferred to Charlotte, was a starter) *LB Tron Folsom (grad transferred to Colorado State, was a starter) *DT Antoine Barker (entered transfer portal in June, was a starter) *DB Terence Dunlap (academically ineligible, will return in 2020, was a starter) *S Koby Perry (kicked off of team) *S Kyler Knudsen (no longer on team)
OFFENSE: *RB BJ Smith (injured for the season) *WR Demontrez Brown (injured for the season) *QB Sawyer Smith (grad transferred to Kentucky) *TE Richard Hallman (entered transfer portal in June) *WR Daniel Crowell (transferred to Jackson State) *OL Zach Branner (graduated, quit football) *WR Bee Hinton (transferred to Jackson State)
That's 16 players that left the program after recruiting was already finished. Most of these guys left after spring practice or during the summer, which is even worse.
-6 of those players on defense that left were projected to be starters. The rest were expected to play as a backup.
-2 of those players on offense that left were projected to be starters.
So to be fair in all of this, (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of) and Brandon Hall were dealt a crap hand with the defense. Even if Vic Koenning was still here, do you really think he would've done a fantastic job with Marcus Jones, Tyler Murray, Tron Folsom, and Antoine Barker leaving? And then having another starting DB become ineligible and two more guys medically retire? I mean, he's struggling mightily at WVU with those young DB's that are having to play.
Overall, I think we'll be fine come next season. It's been a year with bad luck, bad bounces, and bad calls. We get a crap-ton of starters and backups back next season. All we need is for a QB to fill in for Barker, and I don't see that being an issue. We have a lot of QB's... and one thing (The HC we don’t speak of) can do is develop QB's... and if you can't tell that by how Barker's pocket awareness, footwork, velocity, spiral, and has improved since last season, then your blind. Barker's mechanics are way smoother this year. He's even starting to be considered a late-round sleeper pick in the 2020 NFL Draft.
Donât you do it. Donât you dare use facts and logic on this board.
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Post by skeeter on Nov 5, 2019 13:35:19 GMT -6
Great post but from 2016 to 2018 we played with less talent and we still was able to win big due to good coaching, leadership and discipline. Yes we have and will be fine on Offense but the Defense has not gained any ground from the first game to now. That’s not a player problem, it’s a coaching problem, so with that said fire the DC and move on. That’s just me saying
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Post by jonesoxygen on Nov 5, 2019 13:36:22 GMT -6
Great post with a lot of homework done by you.
I just made that same point on another thread in regards to the defensive issues.
The only thing I disagree on is the Coastal Carolina game. PI call was a good call, terrible no call on the holding penalty so if it were called, they offset, we replay the down, dude still scores.
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Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Nov 5, 2019 13:39:35 GMT -6
I get the frustrations. I'm as frustrated as anyone here. But (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of) isn't going anywhere. And I can't help but think of all of the crazy bad luck this team has had since February. It's been a season that I don't think any program would've done well with.
As long as things stay settled during the next offseason, I think we'll see a different looking group of players next year.
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Post by saintflorian on Nov 5, 2019 13:42:45 GMT -6
Just some thought...
We're only 3 possessions, or even 3 bad luck scenarios away from being 6-2 and probably not calling for (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of)'s head.
*We lost to Southern Miss by 5 points. If one of those drives into the redzone had not stalled because of penalties, we likely score a TD and win that game.
*We lost to Arkansas State by 7 points. If Barker doesn't fumble the football, that game looks totally different. Instead, the fumble by Barker that was returned for a TD made it a 14-0 game very fast, and (The HC we don’t speak of) had to stay in catch-up mode all game long. The Red Wolves also converted a crazy fake-punt that no one expected, which led to another score for them.
*We lost to Coastal Carolina by 1 point. We win that game if that ridiculous pass-interference penalty isn't called... or even if that obvious hold on Marcus Webb is called against CCU.
I know we're giving this coaching staff a hard time because we probably shouldn't be sitting here at 3-5... and I know we compare our situation to App State's situation when it comes to having a new coaching staff. But they didn't have an issue with players transferring, retiring, and they had less losses to graduation on defense.
We had 8 players on defense leave the program, and an 9th player (who was a starter) become academically ineligible. We had 7 players on offense leave the program, or get injured for the entire season. Here's the list:
DEFENSE:
*DE Rasool Clemons (medically retired in May) *DB Adarius Wesley (medically retired in June) *DB Marcus Jones (transferred to Houston, was a starter)
*SPEAR Tyler Murray (transferred to Charlotte, was a starter) *LB Tron Folsom (grad transferred to Colorado State, was a starter) *DT Antoine Barker (entered transfer portal in June, was a starter) *DB Terence Dunlap (academically ineligible, will return in 2020, was a starter) *S Koby Perry (kicked off of team) *S Kyler Knudsen (no longer on team)
OFFENSE: *RB BJ Smith (injured for the season) *WR Demontrez Brown (injured for the season) *QB Sawyer Smith (grad transferred to Kentucky) *TE Richard Hallman (entered transfer portal in June) *WR Daniel Crowell (transferred to Jackson State) *OL Zach Branner (graduated, quit football) *WR Bee Hinton (transferred to Jackson State)
That's 16 players that left the program after recruiting was already finished. Most of these guys left after spring practice or during the summer, which is even worse.
-6 of those players on defense that left were projected to be starters. The rest were expected to play as a backup.
-2 of those players on offense that left were projected to be starters.
So to be fair in all of this, (The HC we don’t speak of) (The HC we don’t speak of) and Brandon Hall were dealt a crap hand with the defense. Even if Vic Koenning was still here, do you really think he would've done a fantastic job with Marcus Jones, Tyler Murray, Tron Folsom, and Antoine Barker leaving? And then having another starting DB become ineligible and two more guys medically retire? I mean, he's struggling mightily at WVU with those young DB's that are having to play.
Overall, I think we'll be fine come next season. It's been a year with bad luck, bad bounces, and bad calls. We get a crap-ton of starters and backups back next season. All we need is for a QB to fill in for Barker, and I don't see that being an issue. We have a lot of QB's... and one thing (The HC we don’t speak of) can do is develop QB's... and if you can't tell that by how Barker's pocket awareness, footwork, velocity, spiral, and has improved since last season, then your blind. Barker's mechanics are way smoother this year. He's even starting to be considered a late-round sleeper pick in the 2020 NFL Draft.
Great post. Spot on with facts, what I have stated all year. Does (The HC we don’t speak of) and his staff still have a crap load to work on and improve ? Zero doubt. Coach must at times see the walls closing in, as he was nobodyâs 1st, 2nd,or 3rd choice (ok, maybe one guys choice) Hope he pulls/keeps things together.
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Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Nov 5, 2019 13:49:03 GMT -6
Great post but from 2016 to 2018 we played with less talent and we still was able to win big due to good coaching, leadership and discipline. Yes we have and will be fine on Offense but the Defense has not gained any ground from the first game to now. That’s not a player problem, it’s a coaching problem, so with that said fire the DC and move on. That’s just me saying We may have had a little less talent from 2016 to 2018, but we weren't starting a defense with a bunch of underclassmen either. We had a lot of experienced veterans... Rookard, Cane, Brown, Folsom, etc.
I actually don't think it's a coaching problem neccessarily. Looking at some of these defensive schemes we've been in, we've had good looking sets. Our DB's just aren't getting the job done. They're blowing assignments here and there and are getting fooled on RPO's a lot, and sometimes are just getting flat-out BURNED by faster WR's.
We've got a freshman starting at CB, a freshman starting at FS, a sophomore starting at SPEAR. All of their backups are freshmen too. Our only CB who is a senior... has a freshman backup. We're just too young to be good. These dudes were literally playing high school football a year ago, and are going up against a lot of WR's that have been playing FBS football for a few years against many experienced CB's.
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Post by skeeter on Nov 5, 2019 14:13:06 GMT -6
Great post but from 2016 to 2018 we played with less talent and we still was able to win big due to good coaching, leadership and discipline. Yes we have and will be fine on Offense but the Defense has not gained any ground from the first game to now. That’s not a player problem, it’s a coaching problem, so with that said fire the DC and move on. That’s just me saying We may have had a little less talent from 2016 to 2018, but we weren't starting a defense with a bunch of underclassmen either. We had a lot of experienced veterans... Rookard, Cane, Brown, Folsom, etc.
I actually don't think it's a coaching problem neccessarily. Looking at some of these defensive schemes we've been in, we've had good looking sets. Our DB's just aren't getting the job done. They're blowing assignments here and there and are getting fooled on RPO's a lot, and sometimes are just getting flat-out BURNED by faster WR's.
We've got a freshman starting at CB, a freshman starting at FS, a sophomore starting at SPEAR. All of their backups are freshmen too. Our only CB who is a senior... has a freshman backup. We're just too young to be good. These dudes were literally playing high school football a year ago, and are going up against a lot of WR's that have been playing FBS football for a few years against many experienced CB's.
I will continue to stay consistent and I will not waver, fire the DC, hold people accountable and we as a whole will see improvements. That's just me saying, by the way I'm looking forward to homecoming, see you there!!
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Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Nov 5, 2019 14:15:09 GMT -6
I'm also holding out hope that Brandon Hall's track record at Jax State will correlate to what happens at Troy.
-In his 1st year as Co-DC at Jax State, the Gamecocks were good in some areas on defense, and bad in other areas.
-In his 2nd year as Co-DC, Jax State improved in every single stat. They had the #12 defense in the nation. #16 run defense. #18 pass defense. #3 in interceptions.
-In his 3rd year as co-DC, Jax State improved again in many areas. They had the #4 defense in the nation. #5 run defense. #23 pass defense. #2 in interceptions.
So I desperately hope we see this same kind of improvement come next season.
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Post by Trojan By Birth on Nov 5, 2019 14:33:09 GMT -6
Whoa Whoa Whoa stop the clock. You used selective facts and ignored the massive amounts of yardage and points that have been put up on our defense. Loss of players is one thing, but you can tell by watching our defense play that they are not being coached properly. They are constantly out of position and as the season progresses, we have seen no improvement. The offense can score, but honestly they are a mess. Do we even practice special teams?
Look, I appreciate the work you put in on your post and the facts you present have made an impact, but just watching the team play, you can tell they are a mess. The real measure of this coaching staff will be in the recruiting class they put together. So far I see lots of offensive guys but no defense. I think (The HC we don’t speak of) can turn it around if he finds a winner to coach the defense.
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Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Nov 5, 2019 14:47:53 GMT -6
Whoa Whoa Whoa stop the clock. You used selective facts and ignored the massive amounts of yardage and points that have been put up on our defense. Loss of players is one thing, but you can tell by watching our defense play that they are not being coached properly. They are constantly out of position and as the season progresses, we have seen no improvement. The offense can score, but honestly they are a mess. Do we even practice special teams? Look, I appreciate the work you put in on your post and the facts you present have made an impact, but just watching the team play, you can tell they are a mess. The real measure of this coaching staff will be in the recruiting class they put together. So far I see lots of offensive guys but no defense. I think (The HC we don’t speak of) can turn it around if he finds a winner to coach the defense. Selective facts? They're just general facts. The heavy loss of starters and even contributors on defense is pretty insane, no matter what.
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Post by trojanocean on Nov 5, 2019 14:54:30 GMT -6
Whoa Whoa Whoa stop the clock. You used selective facts and ignored the massive amounts of yardage and points that have been put up on our defense. Loss of players is one thing, but you can tell by watching our defense play that they are not being coached properly. They are constantly out of position and as the season progresses, we have seen no improvement. The offense can score, but honestly they are a mess. Do we even practice special teams? Look, I appreciate the work you put in on your post and the facts you present have made an impact, but just watching the team play, you can tell they are a mess. The real measure of this coaching staff will be in the recruiting class they put together. So far I see lots of offensive guys but no defense. I think (The HC we don’t speak of) can turn it around if he finds a winner to coach the defense. Do you have young people in your household? Are you coaching them up in life? Are they always doing everything you coach them to do? Yep, we see what you see in the secondary. Do you honestly think they coach is coaching them to do that? I don't. I think it's youth and inexperience being exploited by wisdom and experience from our opponents. Not 100% maybe but 70-80%.
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Post by saintflorian on Nov 5, 2019 15:19:52 GMT -6
Whoa Whoa Whoa stop the clock. You used selective facts and ignored the massive amounts of yardage and points that have been put up on our defense. Loss of players is one thing, but you can tell by watching our defense play that they are not being coached properly. They are constantly out of position and as the season progresses, we have seen no improvement. The offense can score, but honestly they are a mess. Do we even practice special teams? Look, I appreciate the work you put in on your post and the facts you present have made an impact, but just watching the team play, you can tell they are a mess. The real measure of this coaching staff will be in the recruiting class they put together. So far I see lots of offensive guys but no defense. I think (The HC we don’t speak of) can turn it around if he finds a winner to coach the defense. Selective facts? They're just general facts. The heavy loss of starters and even contributors on defense is pretty insane, no matter what. Whoa Whoa Whoa stop the clock. You used selective facts and ignored the massive amounts of yardage and points that have been put up on our defense. Loss of players is one thing, but you can tell by watching our defense play that they are not being coached properly. They are constantly out of position and as the season progresses, we have seen no improvement. The offense can score, but honestly they are a mess. Do we even practice special teams? Look, I appreciate the work you put in on your post and the facts you present have made an impact, but just watching the team play, you can tell they are a mess. The real measure of this coaching staff will be in the recruiting class they put together. So far I see lots of offensive guys but no defense. I think (The HC we don’t speak of) can turn it around if he finds a winner to coach the defense. Do you have young people in your household? Are you coaching them up in life? Are they always doing everything you coach them to do? Yep, we see what you see in the secondary. Do you honestly think they coach is coaching them to do that? I don't. I think it's youth and inexperience being exploited by wisdom and experience from our opponents. Not 100% maybe but 70-80%.  Just plain ole logic right there.
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Post by Hemi Man on Nov 5, 2019 15:23:40 GMT -6
Is it Jimmie’s and Joes, X’s and O’s, or culture of the program? Only time will tell.
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Post by Trojan By Birth on Nov 5, 2019 16:38:56 GMT -6
And know this. Y’all can justify keeping these clowns as much as you want but my money won’t be involved.
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Post by trojanocean on Nov 5, 2019 17:44:00 GMT -6
And know this. Y’all can justify keeping these clowns as much as you want but my money won’t be involved. We know. You've said it. We just don't know why you KEEP saying it. Headline: "TROY UNIVERSITY CAMPUS SHUTTERS CLASSROOM DOORS AND CANCELS ENTIRE SPORTS PROGRAM OVER LOSS OF SUPPORT FROM TROJAN BY BIRTH" ...read no paper ever.
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Post by buzzlightyear on Nov 5, 2019 17:59:26 GMT -6
Winning > Losing
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Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Nov 5, 2019 18:30:17 GMT -6
Hopefully we get bowl eligible, somehow, this season.
If not, next season will undoubtedly show if we have a big problem or not.
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Post by Trojan By Birth on Nov 6, 2019 5:51:29 GMT -6
Hopefully we get bowl eligible, somehow, this season. If not, next season will undoubtedly show if we have a big problem or not. We will struggle win against Texas State and that is it.
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Post by Trojan By Birth on Nov 6, 2019 6:07:56 GMT -6
And know this. Y’all can justify keeping these clowns as much as you want but my money won’t be involved. We know. You've said it. We just don't know why you KEEP saying it. Headline: "TROY UNIVERSITY CAMPUS SHUTTERS CLASSROOM DOORS AND CANCELS ENTIRE SPORTS PROGRAM OVER LOSS OF SUPPORT FROM TROJAN BY BIRTH" ...read no paper ever. And you and your moral victory crew can beta back down the block. You keep paying to watch your school get pounded each week if that's what you are in to.
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Post by trojanocean on Nov 6, 2019 7:32:34 GMT -6
We know. You've said it. We just don't know why you KEEP saying it. Headline: "TROY UNIVERSITY CAMPUS SHUTTERS CLASSROOM DOORS AND CANCELS ENTIRE SPORTS PROGRAM OVER LOSS OF SUPPORT FROM TROJAN BY BIRTH" ...read no paper ever. And you and your moral victory crew can beta back down the block. You keep paying to watch your school get pounded each week if that's what you are in to. I'll do it, win or lose, with both self-respect and pride as well as the respect of the rest of the Trojan nation. When we're back on top, I'll lay my head down at night knowing I was there for TROY just like TROY was there for me. My loyalty as a person, be it football or a friend with a flat tire on a rainy 3 AM morning, doesn't rely on the weather. That's another life principle: what you do with the little things is telling of what you do with the big things. Best of luck to those who rely on you in life. Sounds like they'll need it.
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Post by saintflorian on Nov 6, 2019 7:59:02 GMT -6
And you and your moral victory crew can beta back down the block. You keep paying to watch your school get pounded each week if that's what you are in to. I'll do it, win or lose, with both self-respect and pride as well as the respect of the rest of the Trojan nation. When we're back on top, I'll lay my head down at night knowing I was there for TROY just like TROY was there for me. My loyalty as a person, be it football or a friend with a flat tire on a rainy 3 AM morning, doesn't rely on the weather. That's another life principle: what you do with the little things is telling of what you do with the big things. Best of luck to those who rely on you in life. They'll need it. Excellent message trojanocean ! Don’t worry about the chicken little bandwagon fans, every program has them and they talk a lot.
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Post by dedicatedtrojan84 on Nov 6, 2019 8:15:33 GMT -6
Hopefully we get bowl eligible, somehow, this season.
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Post by The Cardinal Rule on Nov 6, 2019 8:29:23 GMT -6
One of the things that is frustrating to me is (The HC we don’t speak of)'s lack of communication. When we lose I need to hear more than "We didn't play well". I mean what went wrong? How do you intend to fix it? Why are things so rough? What can you tell us about our future? The coach doesn't do well with the media and unless you personally know him or hang out at practice you have no clue what is going on. We hate being left in the dark (within reason) and would like some information now and then.
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