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Post by buzzlightyear on Feb 4, 2018 18:41:59 GMT -6
Ok just turned Super Bowl on...Maybe some will disagree but I love college football and THE NATIONAL ANTHEM....Nope I do not like green eggs and ham OR the national forgettable league.... With that said I hope they get a hold of this because I am probably not the only person who feels this way.
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Post by doug4troy on Feb 4, 2018 19:28:06 GMT -6
Ok just turned Super Bowl on...Maybe some will disagree but I love college football and THE NATIONAL ANTHEM....Nope I do not like green eggs and ham OR the national forgettable league.... With that said I hope they get a hold of this because I am probably not the only person who feels this way. I love both as well. Did you not like Pink’s rendition of the anthem before the SB?
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Post by buzzlightyear on Feb 4, 2018 19:50:16 GMT -6
Ok just turned Super Bowl on...Maybe some will disagree but I love college football and THE NATIONAL ANTHEM....Nope I do not like green eggs and ham OR the national forgettable league.... With that said I hope they get a hold of this because I am probably not the only person who feels this way. I love both as well. Did you not like Pink’s rendition of the anthem before the SB? Did not turn it on till a few minutes to go in first. Decided late to watch commercials...Inwill watch replay and do not know how or what she did but in general I like Pink.....hope it was not disrespectful.
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Post by doc71 on Feb 4, 2018 21:43:00 GMT -6
Great game. I watched more NFL this year than I have in years!
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Post by foulpolephenom on Feb 5, 2018 9:52:49 GMT -6
Ok just turned Super Bowl on...Maybe some will disagree but I love college football and THE NATIONAL ANTHEM....Nope I do not like green eggs and ham OR the national forgettable league.... With that said I hope they get a hold of this because I am probably not the only person who feels this way. I'm a big fan of the national anthem too but what's to say college football players wouldn't have acted the same way as NFL players did during the anthem? They are just not given that opportunity since they are in the locker room.
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Post by buzzlightyear on Feb 5, 2018 13:08:41 GMT -6
Ok just turned Super Bowl on...Maybe some will disagree but I love college football and THE NATIONAL ANTHEM....Nope I do not like green eggs and ham OR the national forgettable league.... With that said I hope they get a hold of this because I am probably not the only person who feels this way. I'm a big fan of the national anthem too but what's to say college football players wouldn't have acted the same way as NFL players did during the anthem? They are just not given that opportunity since they are in the locker room. You are correct. My wife teaches fifth grade and a child decided not to stand during the pledge of allegiance. She handled with grace and that and love of the child settled it. I am not saying that the NFL players or college that might do this are not loved but I am saying love not opinions change lives and attitudes. In that the NFL players I hope are growing in their understanding of that type of speech and influencing change for the future that they espouse.
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Post by Trojanfan2 on Feb 5, 2018 14:32:11 GMT -6
As a veteran we all gave some (as the song says) and way too many of my comrades died defending the nation that the flag represents. They returned with that flag covering their coffins. Some day it will cover mine. The very least I can do is stand and show my respect for them. Those @#$%^& need to pick a different symbol.
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Post by foulpolephenom on Feb 5, 2018 16:57:46 GMT -6
As a veteran we all gave some (as the song says) and way too many of my comrades died defending the nation that the flag represents. They returned with that flag covering their coffins. Some day it will cover mine. The very least I can do is stand and show my respect for them. Those @#$%^& need to pick a different symbol. Well, those people you are calling names may be Trojans as well. I'm not going to call out names but definitely saw some student athletes during the basketball game national anthem wearing their hats, goofing off. I think it'd be great to have people such as yourself speak to them about what it means to you.
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Post by Trojanfan2 on Feb 5, 2018 18:47:30 GMT -6
As a veteran we all gave some (as the song says) and way too many of my comrades died defending the nation that the flag represents. They returned with that flag covering their coffins. Some day it will cover mine. The very least I can do is stand and show my respect for them. Those @#$%^& need to pick a different symbol. Well, those people you are calling names may be Trojans as well. I'm not going to call out names but definitely saw some student athletes during the basketball game national anthem wearing their hats, goofing off. I think it'd be great to have people such as yourself speak to them about what it means to you. I'd be glad to!!
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Post by jerichojohnny on Feb 6, 2018 9:42:21 GMT -6
The Super Bowl was a great football game and I watched every second while also using the time to file some papers, tidy up the living room, and other such chores. I don't care one bit about either of those Yankee teams, but it was really a great football game. Stayed close, few penalties, and an ending without controversy. Nobody kneeled on TV - Pink had a pretty weak performance of the anthem but supposedly she was sick. Justin Timberlake's half-time show was ok, nothing special, but not painfully bad.
I don't really know how good of an idea it is to talk about this hot-button issue on this football board, but sure, why resist sharing my piece?
I'll say it's no surprise a group primarily composed of red-state Alabamians (a state nearly synonymous with America's long history of racial bigotry and disenfranchisement) would fail to even give a tip of the hat to the legitimate grievances underlying this protest. I suspect, of course, that's because many of you take the view that they are a bunch of rich whiny-babies who are fortunate enough to live in a country where anyone and everyone has a fair shot. I don't "support" the protest. I think the anthem is a poor choice of forum, and I also strongly believe the players, as employees, have absolutely no "right" to protest while on the job. Ultimately, the NFL bears the responsibility for creating this environment.
That said, the protest doesn't particularly upset me. They aren't being disrespectful in my book, for using their platform, in a very public yet restrained way, to protest an issue which is very real and about which white Americans have yet again demonstrated our profound talent for self-delusion and gas-lighting. I am the sort who takes our nation's symbols seriously, and takes great pride in them. When the anthem plays I stand up and put my hand over my heart. I always have since I was in school. I saw a number of grown white men (as it happened)in that Super Bowl crowd with their heads down, playing on their phones during the anthem. That to me is far more disrespectful than a quiet protest which is in line with our country's greatest traditions.
At the end of the day, what I am loyal to is our republican, capitalistic, individualistic culture and nation. The respect for life and freedom and intellectual curiosity we derive from our Western cultural heritage. I am near to a First Amendment "absolutist" in freedom of speech, and of the press, and of religion. One things that makes us better than the hypocrites in Europe is that to a great extent we really are free to say whatever we want. We have the right to hate. To deny the Holocaust, to deny that black people in this country have been trampled on since the beginning. I support that right. That's part of a great and free nation. There is no right not to have your feelings hurt, nor should there ever be!
But ultimately the flag really is just a symbol, a piece of cloth. It's the values that matter. They could invite Puerto Rico to become a state tomorrow and then we'd have to change the flag. But the values underlying it would not change. It's what it represents that matters, and my view is our flag is more secure than we are. If we have the right to hate, as I believe we do, we have the right to burn flags and kneel during the anthem (which is far from the same thing) and do things as disgusting as Westboro Baptist Church protesting funerals (subject to time, place, manner restrictions).
Final point: Police brutality is real, and as a former assistant district attorney, I am CONVINCED from both the studies that they do and my own observations that the justice system is deeply unfair to blacks and we've put ourselves in a self-perpetuating cycle. That's not to mention how devastatingly unfair the system is for poor people. You often CAN buy freedom unless you murdered someone. One problem with the whole Black Lives Matter thing is a lot of their posterboys have ended up being bad dudes, but other cases are indicative of what's going on in America. White people want to pretend "we've" fixed this problem already, move on, get over it. But that's not the reality. The problem is white people don't see this because they don't want to see it. I am the LAST person to support the bleeding heart liberal identity drivel that the left is pushing to make white men out to be bad guys. I dislike the term "people of color" because it seeks to unify all against white. I'm getting so sick of the media's comfort with writing about "old white men." Literally yesterday I heard a liberal radio host say "anyone whose fans are primarily young, white, and male must be viewed with suspicion." BOGUS! We should push back against this stuff, but that doesn't foreclose being honest about the way blacks are treated in America. Try imagining what it would feel like to be black and to live in this society where everyone is making 1000 assumptions about you for something you can't hide. And sure, if you're dressed like a fool that's one thing, but even living right you are up against this subtle bias. And if you think all of that doesn't sneak into prosecutions, you're wrong. I've got plenty of anecdotes, but I'd look at the studies. Also, white privilege is a real thing. I came up poor in the country, so I do not consider myself privileged and am extremely proud of having risen from the trailer park to where I am not, BUT I still benefit from my white skin. I don't think it's been a huge benefit to me, given my childhood poverty and strong accent, BUT I am not going to pay myself on the back and say I haven't benefitted at least a little from being white. There's no reason to feel guilty about that.
Start thinking more critically. Where do you consume media? What is their agenda? Think about things from other people's perspectives. If I were black, would I support this movement? Why? What disgusts me is how many of what I call "drumbeaters" who are gaudily pro-American and plaster cheap flag stickers over everything and think America can do no wrong are out there. That's not real patriotism. A real patriot is someone who serves this country and/or loves this country knowing what it is, and knowing WHY they should still love it. This country was founded in conquest - rape, genocide, war, and slavery, let's stop denying it. But it's also worth remembering there's not many nations that WEREN'T.s
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Post by skeeter on Feb 6, 2018 11:06:10 GMT -6
The Super Bowl was a great football game and I watched every second while also using the time to file some papers, tidy up the living room, and other such chores. I don't care one bit about either of those Yankee teams, but it was really a great football game. Stayed close, few penalties, and an ending without controversy. Nobody kneeled on TV - Pink had a pretty weak performance of the anthem but supposedly she was sick. Justin Timberlake's half-time show was ok, nothing special, but not painfully bad. I don't really know how good of an idea it is to talk about this hot-button issue on this football board, but sure, why resist sharing my piece? I'll say it's no surprise a group primarily composed of red-state Alabamians (a state nearly synonymous with America's long history of racial bigotry and disenfranchisement) would fail to even give a tip of the hat to the legitimate grievances underlying this protest. I suspect, of course, that's because many of you take the view that they are a bunch of rich whiny-babies who are fortunate enough to live in a country where anyone and everyone has a fair shot. I don't "support" the protest. I think the anthem is a poor choice of forum, and I also strongly believe the players, as employees, have absolutely no "right" to protest while on the job. Ultimately, the NFL bears the responsibility for creating this environment. That said, the protest doesn't particularly upset me. They aren't being disrespectful in my book, for using their platform, in a very public yet restrained way, to protest an issue which is very real and about which white Americans have yet again demonstrated our profound talent for self-delusion and gas-lighting. I am the sort who takes our nation's symbols seriously, and takes great pride in them. When the anthem plays I stand up and put my hand over my heart. I always have since I was in school. I saw a number of grown white men (as it happened)in that Super Bowl crowd with their heads down, playing on their phones during the anthem. That to me is far more disrespectful than a quiet protest which is in line with our country's greatest traditions. At the end of the day, what I am loyal to is our republican, capitalistic, individualistic culture and nation. The respect for life and freedom and intellectual curiosity we derive from our Western cultural heritage. I am near to a First Amendment "absolutist" in freedom of speech, and of the press, and of religion. One things that makes us better than the hypocrites in Europe is that to a great extent we really are free to say whatever we want. We have the right to hate. To deny the Holocaust, to deny that black people in this country have been trampled on since the beginning. I support that right. That's part of a great and free nation. There is no right not to have your feelings hurt, nor should there ever be! But ultimately the flag really is just a symbol, a piece of cloth. It's the values that matter. They could invite Puerto Rico to become a state tomorrow and then we'd have to change the flag. But the values underlying it would not change. It's what it represents that matters, and my view is our flag is more secure than we are. If we have the right to hate, as I believe we do, we have the right to burn flags and kneel during the anthem (which is far from the same thing) and do things as disgusting as Westboro Baptist Church protesting funerals (subject to time, place, manner restrictions). Final point: Police brutality is real, and as a former assistant district attorney, I am CONVINCED from both the studies that they do and my own observations that the justice system is deeply unfair to blacks and we've put ourselves in a self-perpetuating cycle. That's not to mention how devastatingly unfair the system is for poor people. You often CAN buy freedom unless you murdered someone. One problem with the whole Black Lives Matter thing is a lot of their posterboys have ended up being bad dudes, but other cases are indicative of what's going on in America. White people want to pretend "we've" fixed this problem already, move on, get over it. But that's not the reality. The problem is white people don't see this because they don't want to see it. I am the LAST person to support the bleeding heart liberal identity drivel that the left is pushing to make white men out to be bad guys. I dislike the term "people of color" because it seeks to unify all against white. I'm getting so sick of the media's comfort with writing about "old white men." Literally yesterday I heard a liberal radio host say "anyone whose fans are primarily young, white, and male must be viewed with suspicion." BOGUS! We should push back against this stuff, but that doesn't foreclose being honest about the way blacks are treated in America. Try imagining what it would feel like to be black and to live in this society where everyone is making 1000 assumptions about you for something you can't hide. And sure, if you're dressed like a fool that's one thing, but even living right you are up against this subtle bias. And if you think all of that doesn't sneak into prosecutions, you're wrong. I've got plenty of anecdotes, but I'd look at the studies. Also, white privilege is a real thing. I came up poor in the country, so I do not consider myself privileged and am extremely proud of having risen from the trailer park to where I am not, BUT I still benefit from my white skin. I don't think it's been a huge benefit to me, given my childhood poverty and strong accent, BUT I am not going to pay myself on the back and say I haven't benefitted at least a little from being white. There's no reason to feel guilty about that. Start thinking more critically. Where do you consume media? What is their agenda? Think about things from other people's perspectives. If I were black, would I support this movement? Why? What disgusts me is how many of what I call "drumbeaters" who are gaudily pro-American and plaster cheap flag stickers over everything and think America can do no wrong are out there. That's not real patriotism. A real patriot is someone who serves this country and/or loves this country knowing what it is, and knowing WHY they should still love it. This country was founded in conquest - rape, genocide, war, and slavery, let's stop denying it. But it's also worth remembering there's not many nations that WEREN'T.
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Post by skeeter on Feb 6, 2018 11:10:46 GMT -6
The Super Bowl was a great football game and I watched every second while also using the time to file some papers, tidy up the living room, and other such chores. I don't care one bit about either of those Yankee teams, but it was really a great football game. Stayed close, few penalties, and an ending without controversy. Nobody kneeled on TV - Pink had a pretty weak performance of the anthem but supposedly she was sick. Justin Timberlake's half-time show was ok, nothing special, but not painfully bad. I don't really know how good of an idea it is to talk about this hot-button issue on this football board, but sure, why resist sharing my piece? I'll say it's no surprise a group primarily composed of red-state Alabamians (a state nearly synonymous with America's long history of racial bigotry and disenfranchisement) would fail to even give a tip of the hat to the legitimate grievances underlying this protest. I suspect, of course, that's because many of you take the view that they are a bunch of rich whiny-babies who are fortunate enough to live in a country where anyone and everyone has a fair shot. I don't "support" the protest. I think the anthem is a poor choice of forum, and I also strongly believe the players, as employees, have absolutely no "right" to protest while on the job. Ultimately, the NFL bears the responsibility for creating this environment. That said, the protest doesn't particularly upset me. They aren't being disrespectful in my book, for using their platform, in a very public yet restrained way, to protest an issue which is very real and about which white Americans have yet again demonstrated our profound talent for self-delusion and gas-lighting. I am the sort who takes our nation's symbols seriously, and takes great pride in them. When the anthem plays I stand up and put my hand over my heart. I always have since I was in school. I saw a number of grown white men (as it happened)in that Super Bowl crowd with their heads down, playing on their phones during the anthem. That to me is far more disrespectful than a quiet protest which is in line with our country's greatest traditions. At the end of the day, what I am loyal to is our republican, capitalistic, individualistic culture and nation. The respect for life and freedom and intellectual curiosity we derive from our Western cultural heritage. I am near to a First Amendment "absolutist" in freedom of speech, and of the press, and of religion. One things that makes us better than the hypocrites in Europe is that to a great extent we really are free to say whatever we want. We have the right to hate. To deny the Holocaust, to deny that black people in this country have been trampled on since the beginning. I support that right. That's part of a great and free nation. There is no right not to have your feelings hurt, nor should there ever be! But ultimately the flag really is just a symbol, a piece of cloth. It's the values that matter. They could invite Puerto Rico to become a state tomorrow and then we'd have to change the flag. But the values underlying it would not change. It's what it represents that matters, and my view is our flag is more secure than we are. If we have the right to hate, as I believe we do, we have the right to burn flags and kneel during the anthem (which is far from the same thing) and do things as disgusting as Westboro Baptist Church protesting funerals (subject to time, place, manner restrictions). Final point: Police brutality is real, and as a former assistant district attorney, I am CONVINCED from both the studies that they do and my own observations that the justice system is deeply unfair to blacks and we've put ourselves in a self-perpetuating cycle. That's not to mention how devastatingly unfair the system is for poor people. You often CAN buy freedom unless you murdered someone. One problem with the whole Black Lives Matter thing is a lot of their posterboys have ended up being bad dudes, but other cases are indicative of what's going on in America. White people want to pretend "we've" fixed this problem already, move on, get over it. But that's not the reality. The problem is white people don't see this because they don't want to see it. I am the LAST person to support the bleeding heart liberal identity drivel that the left is pushing to make white men out to be bad guys. I dislike the term "people of color" because it seeks to unify all against white. I'm getting so sick of the media's comfort with writing about "old white men." Literally yesterday I heard a liberal radio host say "anyone whose fans are primarily young, white, and male must be viewed with suspicion." BOGUS! We should push back against this stuff, but that doesn't foreclose being honest about the way blacks are treated in America. Try imagining what it would feel like to be black and to live in this society where everyone is making 1000 assumptions about you for something you can't hide. And sure, if you're dressed like a fool that's one thing, but even living right you are up against this subtle bias. And if you think all of that doesn't sneak into prosecutions, you're wrong. I've got plenty of anecdotes, but I'd look at the studies. Also, white privilege is a real thing. I came up poor in the country, so I do not consider myself privileged and am extremely proud of having risen from the trailer park to where I am not, BUT I still benefit from my white skin. I don't think it's been a huge benefit to me, given my childhood poverty and strong accent, BUT I am not going to pay myself on the back and say I haven't benefitted at least a little from being white. There's no reason to feel guilty about that. Start thinking more critically. Where do you consume media? What is their agenda? Think about things from other people's perspectives. If I were black, would I support this movement? Why? What disgusts me is how many of what I call "drumbeaters" who are gaudily pro-American and plaster cheap flag stickers over everything and think America can do no wrong are out there. That's not real patriotism. A real patriot is someone who serves this country and/or loves this country knowing what it is, and knowing WHY they should still love it. This country was founded in conquest - rape, genocide, war, and slavery, let's stop denying it. But it's also worth remembering there's not many nations that WEREN'T.s First off I would like to think you for your service as public servient, and second off I would like to say that I agree and disagree with some of the statements you have made, which is ok today. But you make one statement that I would like for you to please clarify if you do not mine. That is "White privilege is real", are we taking about in general or in the world of sports when it comes to your statistics? By the way I am a proud military man and would have given my life under this great Nation Flag so people could or can stand, sit and be on their phone during the Nation National Anthem. They will always have that privilege due to the sacrifices that has come before me and the ones that will come after me. Again thanks for your public service
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Post by buzzlightyear on Feb 6, 2018 11:52:03 GMT -6
I hope this thread that I started comes to an end. Where we now are using terms such as White in them. God loves everyone equally and to deny or espouse characteristics to anyone...or for that matter saying this is legitimate or not legitimate was never the point. For the only change EVER for the good of man is and always has been spearheaded by the the love of others. I know that many would jump On that and say how about the A-bomb etc. Arguments can be made for all kinds of isolated examples...I am talking about the true good of man like kindness, gentleness, self control etc. There are no laws against that. As to my original post I wish they (the protesters) had chosen another way, but is their right and my right to not like the NFL PARTIALLY because of that. PLEASE do not extend this in to racial areas it was never intended. ALL are welcomed in to the kingdom. Not just the ones who look, act, or think like as we do. I should have thought about this when I started this thread. Please forgive me for my shortsightedness.
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Post by Trojanfan2 on Feb 6, 2018 18:08:18 GMT -6
Everything is either racial, political or both now. As long as agitators make money from constantly stirring the pot, pointing out the bad, and ignoring the good, it won't end. The flag is not just a piece of cloth. I've folded a few and handed them to the next of kin. I've been with family as some have been handed to us. I've also put out thousands on graves. Is it your right to disrespect all it represents and the people who died to give you that right --- I'm not sure. To me it is sacred;
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