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Post by Redwaver on Oct 23, 2016 19:26:57 GMT -6
At this point what does it matter ? We won. I would explain.......but you can't understand!
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Post by Hemi Man on Oct 23, 2016 19:30:50 GMT -6
I agree, he may have stepped out and NB was right there and said that he did... BUT according to the rule there must be INDISPUTABLE VIDEO evidence to overturn the ruling on the field that it was a TD. I did not see INDISPUTABLE video evidence that the Chunn stepped out. Yes, he probably did, but probably is not INDISPUTABLE... The official saw what he thought that the runner may have stepped out, you can see him motion to the line on while the play is going on. BUT there was no video evidence to overturn the ruling on the field. I believe the Ref just didn't want to be the "bad guy" and blow it dead, like he probably should have. Just a curious question, had we lost, would you feel the same about the reversal? It's history and we won but the rule is the rule! Inconsistency has always been my biggest complaint about the officiating in this league as well as overall.
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Post by Redwaver on Oct 23, 2016 19:36:24 GMT -6
Just a curious question, had we lost, would you feel the same about the reversal? It's history and we won but the rule is the rule! Inconsistency has always been my biggest complaint about the officiating in this league as well as overall. THERE YOU GO! You get the point!! Thank you! It's not about that particular call as much as it's about getting the call right whatever right is BASED ON THE RULE AS WRITTEN, NOT AS AN OFFICIAL THINKS IT MIGHT BE and that's INDISPUTABLE VISUAL EVIDENCE TO OVERTURN !
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Post by saintflorian on Oct 24, 2016 5:37:35 GMT -6
Inconsistency has always been my biggest complaint about the officiating in this league as well as overall. THERE YOU GO! You get the point!! Thank you! It's not about that particular call as much as it's about getting the call right whatever right is BASED ON THE RULE AS WRITTEN, NOT AS AN OFFICIAL THINKS IT MIGHT BE and that's INDISPUTABLE VISUAL EVIDENCE TO OVERTURN ! Ok you win. We get it. Move on.
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Post by Redwaver on Oct 24, 2016 8:21:03 GMT -6
THERE YOU GO! You get the point!! Thank you! It's not about that particular call as much as it's about getting the call right whatever right is BASED ON THE RULE AS WRITTEN, NOT AS AN OFFICIAL THINKS IT MIGHT BE and that's INDISPUTABLE VISUAL EVIDENCE TO OVERTURN ! Ok you win. We get it. Move on. Most get it but I'm not sure you GET anything. I'll "move on " when I'm darn ready to!
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Post by saintflorian on Oct 24, 2016 8:25:03 GMT -6
Ok you win. We get it. Move on. Most get it but I'm not sure you GET anything. I'll "move on " when I'm darn ready to! Ok, no problem. Please reply with three pages of rambles (with no punctuation) about whey we should care about whether or not the officials might or might not have thought the Troy player stepped out. Yes, the Sunbelt refs are not accurate and consistent week in and week out. Done.
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Post by Cane Gone Trojan on Oct 24, 2016 8:57:51 GMT -6
I watched the game live along with every replay which was a field interior side views that never showed "indisputable evidence" his foot was on the line. My understanding is we see the SAME views the official upstairs sees, that he does not have private views that only he sees. I'm not sure what views is on your replay that wasn't on the live broadcast! I'm good with NB's opinion but after that Clemson fiasco I'm fed up with officials using video and getting it wrong or refusing to use it to get it rigjt I watched a replay of the live game (rebroadcast) and it looked, to me, like he stepped out as well. Not trying to be disagreeable, but i think they got it right. I'm with you Redwaver....I've been discussed by the horrific, inconsistent officiating this season. If Troy goes 11-1 then bad officiating in the Clemson game would be the cause of Troy not going to a BCS game this year. I just hope it gets better and isn't the cause of Troy not winning a Sunbelt Championship this year.
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Post by Redwaver on Oct 24, 2016 9:18:35 GMT -6
Most get it but I'm not sure you GET anything. I'll "move on " when I'm darn ready to! Ok, no problem. Please reply with three pages of rambles (with no punctuation) about whey we should care about whether or not the officials might or might not have thought the Troy player stepped out. Yes, the Sunbelt refs are not accurate and consistent week in and week out. Done. Are you miserable to others by nature or do you work at it? Every exchange of ideas, thoughts of opinions on this site for ages has been , at some point, "blessed" by a sarcastic, derogatory or smart a-- remark by you. You must suffer from one darn severe case of inferiority complex..... or maybe it's "superiority complex"! Why not let us have discourse without your intervention unless you can be civil. Who are you to tell anyone to basically shut up and move on?
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Post by saintflorian on Oct 24, 2016 11:39:16 GMT -6
Ok, no problem. Please reply with three pages of rambles (with no punctuation) about whey we should care about whether or not the officials might or might not have thought the Troy player stepped out. Yes, the Sunbelt refs are not accurate and consistent week in and week out. Done. Are you miserable to others by nature or do you work at it? Every exchange of ideas, thoughts of opinions on this site for ages has been , at some point, "blessed" by a sarcastic, derogatory or smart a-- remark by you. You must suffer from one darn severe case of inferiority complex..... or maybe it's "superiority complex"! Why not let us have discourse without your intervention unless you can be civil. Who are you to tell anyone to basically shut up and move on? Who are you to ramble on about the same topic over and over and over ? Who are to tell I can't have an opinion on whether or not your opinions are dry, repetitive and at this point dont matter to whether we won or lost ? But I digress. With all due speed, ramble on......and on...
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Post by Redwaver on Oct 24, 2016 11:52:05 GMT -6
Are you miserable to others by nature or do you work at it? Every exchange of ideas, thoughts of opinions on this site for ages has been , at some point, "blessed" by a sarcastic, derogatory or smart a-- remark by you. You must suffer from one darn severe case of inferiority complex..... or maybe it's "superiority complex"! Why not let us have discourse without your intervention unless you can be civil. Who are you to tell anyone to basically shut up and move on? Who are you to ramble on about the same topic over and over and over ? Who are to tell I can't have an opinion on whether or not your opinions are dry, repetitive and at this point dont matter to whether we won or lost ? But I digress. With all due speed, ramble on......and on... Who am I to "ramble"? It's called the first amendment but I suspect you want that changed to your ideals as well. YOU scold me for expressing my thoughts on officiating skills after I played and coached for years yet I doubt you would know what a jock strap was if you saw one. You complain about my multiple comments about a game call yet we have endured your constant degrading of places and people like the city of Troy, Pike County and everyone from any small town that you feel is worthless or less "civilized" than you forever. You are truly the most negative individual on here and the only one who sets themselves up to correct, admonish, condemn and bad mouth almost every post and poster here but if that's what it takes to blow your dress up, have at it! A simple concept we all use, if you don't want to hear any more on a subject, JUST DON'T READ IT. Is that concept beyond your pay grade? I'm through with you!
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Post by saintflorian on Oct 24, 2016 12:06:32 GMT -6
Who are you to ramble on about the same topic over and over and over ? Who are to tell I can't have an opinion on whether or not your opinions are dry, repetitive and at this point dont matter to whether we won or lost ? But I digress. With all due speed, ramble on......and on... Who am I to "ramble"? It's called the first amendment but I suspect you want tat changed as well. YOU s could me for expressing my thoughts on officiating skills after I played and coached for years yet I doubt you would know what a kick strap was if you saw one. You complain about my multiple comments about a game call yet we have endured your constant degrading of places and people like the city of Troy, Pike County and everyone from any small town that you feel is worthless or less "civilized" than you. You are truly the most negative individual on here and the only one who sets themselves up to correct, admonish, condemn and bad mouth almost every post and poster here but if that's what it takes to blow your dress up, have at it! A simple concept we all use, if you don't want to hear any more on a subject, JUST DON'T READ IT. Is that concept beyond your pay grade? Your above statement is not true Mr. Waver. Not true. But I least you quit talking about the reply on Mega Chunn's screen pass. Go Trojans, win one TODAY !!
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Post by preachertoo on Oct 24, 2016 14:29:42 GMT -6
I agree, he may have stepped out and NB was right there and said that he did... BUT according to the rule there must be INDISPUTABLE VIDEO evidence to overturn the ruling on the field that it was a TD. I did not see INDISPUTABLE video evidence that the Chunn stepped out. Yes, he probably did, but probably is not INDISPUTABLE... The official saw what he thought that the runner may have stepped out, you can see him motion to the line on while the play is going on. BUT there was no video evidence to overturn the ruling on the field. I believe the Ref just didn't want to be the "bad guy" and blow it dead, like he probably should have. I saw this in a couple of other games. The side judge points at what he thought was out of bounds motioning(giving his opinion) to the guy in the booth for a review. It was to close for it to be definitive in live action. Much like letting a possible fumble be played out instead of calling it down. If it is called down and then reversed then the other team gets the ball where it was down not where they progressed the ball - possible touchdown. If the side judge blows this play dead then if it is reversed there would be no difference in the outcome. But because he didn't blow the whistle the ball can still be brought back to the point he stepped out or a touchdown could be the outcome. I'm sure the field judge figured there were cameras down the line like other games. not sure why we didn't see that view but most games have a camera down each sideline.
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Post by trojanbrutha on Oct 24, 2016 15:28:40 GMT -6
Troy didn't just suddenly start experiencing bad calls.
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Post by Bubba the Trojan on Oct 24, 2016 19:42:41 GMT -6
Troy didn't just suddenly start experiencing bad calls. You got dat right!
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Post by ScottyPotty on Oct 25, 2016 8:30:27 GMT -6
They don't show the ones they have in the booth The booth uses the TV cameras to review calls, so we do see what the booth sees.
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Post by LAZebra on Oct 25, 2016 9:00:53 GMT -6
At times I am as frustrated as anyone with calls that go against the Trojans. But, I also understand that as a fan I am completely un-objective about calls involving my team. If any of you would like to give officiating a try I can hook you up. A few of the best things you will learn are: the rule isn't always the rule (spirit and intent are often more important), 7 or 8 officials can be in the best position to see the most likely important action but can never see every action by 22 players on a 6400 square yard field (incidentally, neither can the TV cameras), even mediocre officials get more than 95% of calls correct (the best ones come in around 99.5%), most fans, coaches, players do not know the rules (and none of them understand how they are applied), the only people in the stadium who want the game called fairly are the officials (everyone else wants you to cheat for their side), officials (every last one of them) are human and thus make human errors, officials want to get every play right and are harder on themselves than any coach, player or fan could ever be. In the case of the touchdown run against south, the evidence is pretty strong that the officials indeed did get it right (even if it did piss me off at the time)!
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Post by ksdtrojan on Oct 25, 2016 9:49:03 GMT -6
At times I am as frustrated as anyone with calls that go against the Trojans. But, I also understand that as a fan I am completely un-objective about calls involving my team. If any of you would like to give officiating a try I can hook you up. A few of the best things you will learn are: the rule isn't always the rule (spirit and intent are often more important), 7 or 8 officials can be in the best position to see the most likely important action but can never see every action by 22 players on a 6400 square yard field (incidentally, neither can the TV cameras), even mediocre officials get more than 95% of calls correct (the best ones come in around 99.5%), most fans, coaches, players do not know the rules (and none of them understand how they are applied), the only people in the stadium who want the game called fairly are the officials (everyone else wants you to cheat for their side), officials (every last one of them) are human and thus make human errors, officials want to get every play right and are harder on themselves than any coach, player or fan could ever be. In the case of the touchdown run against south, the evidence is pretty strong that the officials indeed did get it right (even if it did piss me off at the time)! And as HCNB has said in multiple interviews..."This (football) is a hard game to call!"
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Post by Hemi Man on Oct 25, 2016 9:54:38 GMT -6
At times I am as frustrated as anyone with calls that go against the Trojans. But, I also understand that as a fan I am completely un-objective about calls involving my team. If any of you would like to give officiating a try I can hook you up. A few of the best things you will learn are: the rule isn't always the rule (spirit and intent are often more important), 7 or 8 officials can be in the best position to see the most likely important action but can never see every action by 22 players on a 6400 square yard field (incidentally, neither can the TV cameras), even mediocre officials get more than 95% of calls correct (the best ones come in around 99.5%), most fans, coaches, players do not know the rules (and none of them understand how they are applied), the only people in the stadium who want the game called fairly are the officials (everyone else wants you to cheat for their side), officials (every last one of them) are human and thus make human errors, officials want to get every play right and are harder on themselves than any coach, player or fan could ever be. In the case of the touchdown run against south, the evidence is pretty strong that the officials indeed did get it right (even if it did piss me off at the time)! I'm far more concerned with the lack of consistency displayed by Sun Belt officials than I am with them missing a single call. Holding calls vary from play to play. The fumble on the 2nd play is very similar to the goaline play that was blown dead at Clemson. The Sun Belt is notorious for poor officiating in most all sports. Maybe it's because of being a lowervtier conference. In no way do I think they are ever against Troy or any other school. They are human and if a complaint is ever brought against them I wonder how long they remember it. It's the same as an umpire calling low strikes all night. You can adjust to that if he's consistent. If he varies from batter to batter everyone will be frustrated.
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Post by tums on Oct 25, 2016 10:46:04 GMT -6
Just figured I would bring this one up since people are hashing out bad calls.
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Post by LAZebra on Oct 25, 2016 11:11:54 GMT -6
At times I am as frustrated as anyone with calls that go against the Trojans. But, I also understand that as a fan I am completely un-objective about calls involving my team. If any of you would like to give officiating a try I can hook you up. A few of the best things you will learn are: the rule isn't always the rule (spirit and intent are often more important), 7 or 8 officials can be in the best position to see the most likely important action but can never see every action by 22 players on a 6400 square yard field (incidentally, neither can the TV cameras), even mediocre officials get more than 95% of calls correct (the best ones come in around 99.5%), most fans, coaches, players do not know the rules (and none of them understand how they are applied), the only people in the stadium who want the game called fairly are the officials (everyone else wants you to cheat for their side), officials (every last one of them) are human and thus make human errors, officials want to get every play right and are harder on themselves than any coach, player or fan could ever be. In the case of the touchdown run against south, the evidence is pretty strong that the officials indeed did get it right (even if it did piss me off at the time)! I'm far more concerned with the lack of consistency displayed by Sun Belt officials than I am with them missing a single call. Holding calls vary from play to play. The fumble on the 2nd play is very similar to the goaline play that was blown dead at Clemson. The Sun Belt is notorious for poor officiating in most all sports. Maybe it's because of being a lowervtier conference. In no way do I think they are ever against Troy or any other school. They are human and if a complaint is ever brought against them I wonder how long they remember it. It's the same as an umpire calling low strikes all night. You can adjust to that if he's consistent. If he varies from batter to batter everyone will be frustrated. We most definitely suffer from the fact that there are not enough top level officials to go around. In football, in the South, it is particularly tight right now as the SEC and ACC have had a bunch of retirements the last couple of years, creating opportunities for the better officials in the Sun Belt and Conf USA to "move up". The Sun Belt in particular has become the "minor leagues" for SEC officials with Steve Shaw being the coordinator for both conferences.
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Post by Navarre Trojan on Oct 25, 2016 17:53:49 GMT -6
Just figured I would bring this one up since people are hashing out bad calls. Yeah, this is the play that an acquaintance (high school official in Texas) tried to tell me that "the whistle doesn't stop the play, the play stops the play". Baffled I tell you, I was baffled by his explanation!!!
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Post by tums on Oct 25, 2016 19:50:19 GMT -6
Just figured I would bring this one up since people are hashing out bad calls. Yeah, this is the play that an acquaintance (high school official in Texas) tried to tell me that "the whistle doesn't stop the play, the play stops the play". Baffled I tell you, I was baffled by his explanation!!! Why dI'd they use this rule that was used to make it a nonreviewable play "A fumble after the whistle has blown. At that point, the play is considered dead and can not be reviewed."
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Post by Redwaver on Oct 25, 2016 19:54:51 GMT -6
Yeah, this is the play that an acquaintance (high school official in Texas) tried to tell me that "the whistle doesn't stop the play, the play stops the play". Baffled I tell you, I was baffled by his explanation!!! Why dI'd they use this rule that was used to make it a nonreviewable play "A fumble after the whistle has blown. At that point, the play is considered dead and can not be reviewed." My point was (and he very well might have stepped out) was what the rule states, "it must be visual indisputable evidence" to overturn and knowing they see what we see on TV, I didn't see ANYTHING that supported that decision other than OPINION, not fact. That was my point, no more no less.
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Post by saintflorian on Oct 26, 2016 6:15:35 GMT -6
I just re watched the games from the 2010 season, I think the refs missed a few calls. It really needs to be analyzed and discussed. Could y'all look at this and get something done about it.
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Post by LAZebra on Oct 26, 2016 6:35:39 GMT -6
Yeah, this is the play that an acquaintance (high school official in Texas) tried to tell me that "the whistle doesn't stop the play, the play stops the play". Baffled I tell you, I was baffled by his explanation!!! Why dI'd they use this rule that was used to make it a nonreviewable play "A fumble after the whistle has blown. At that point, the play is considered dead and can not be reviewed." Your acquaintance is exactly correct. The whistle is a signal to let the players and officials know the play is over. When a runner is down by rule the play is over, even if a whistle never blows. Also the play is over when the runner or the ball are out of bounds, when a pass is incomplete, when a touchback occurs.............. all these events end the play whether or not a whistle blows. Officials are taught to only blow the whistle if they can see the football and have firsthand knowledge that the play is over. Blowing a whistle without these two criteria is a recipe for disaster (aka an inadvertent whistle). One of the very last things I say to my crew at mid-field before the kickoff is "Don't even reach for your whistle if you don't see the football!"
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