|
Post by TheAmericanDream on Jan 22, 2016 20:19:42 GMT -6
TheAmericanDream has probably never sniffed a scholarship and doesn't know what it's like... which is why he had the audacity to post that ridiculous picture.
Why would I sniff paper? That makes no sense.
|
|
|
Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Jan 22, 2016 21:42:31 GMT -6
TheAmericanDream has probably never sniffed a scholarship and doesn't know what it's like... which is why he had the audacity to post that ridiculous picture. Why would I sniff paper? That makes no sense. I just figured you've sniffed a lot of things.
|
|
|
Post by TrojanFanatic on Jan 22, 2016 22:49:36 GMT -6
I don't like it, I don't agree with it and I think that this is just going to piss the regular students off. I get that these athletes can't get jobs and that not all of them are on 100 percent scholarships but what about the students that are working their butts off to pay rent? What about the kids that can't get jobs because they're overboard on classes trying to graduate on time so they don't have to take out another loan, or, and I'll be the one to bring it up, the band kids that can't work because of practices and obligations.
|
|
|
Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Jan 22, 2016 23:07:01 GMT -6
This will eventually become a competition for the Power 5 schools to recruit. It will be 'which school can offer the highest stipend' for the top recruits. Next thing you know, these students will be making $25,000 per athlete per year. Just wait for it... it's bound to happen.
|
|
|
Post by Redwaver on Jan 23, 2016 6:10:56 GMT -6
This will eventually become a competition for the Power 5 schools to recruit. It will be 'which school can offer the highest stipend' for the top recruits. Next thing you know, these students will be making $25,000 per athlete per year. Just wait for it... it's bound to happen. The NCAA should set an absolute maximum not to exceed or else!!
|
|
|
Post by Troystet on Jan 23, 2016 8:50:25 GMT -6
And some of these students are working to pay rent and graduating with $20,000-$50,000 in debt. I'm sure they would like $2,500 a semester to piss away anyway they wanted Since students on academic scholarships actually bring in very little if any money to the university during their tenure there, the same can't be said about athletes. They generate revenue via their scholarship in most cases. In the case of the SEC, $500+ million in 2015. But why does an athlete who spends their extra money "piss it away" but academic students are frugal? It's all speculation, frustrations and opinions, whatever, it's a done deal! I've got to stop reading this stuff....! Everyone is bringing up athletes bring in money to schools. That is partially true. Yes football, baseball and basketball bring in money at certain schools. I don't think basketball makes money at Troy, I could be wrong but we draw about 1,000-2,000 a game. Soccer, cross country, softball, track, golf bring in zero dollars. It doesn't matter because this has nothing to do with revenue sharing. This is a cost of attendance stipend. So if your an athlete you need $5,000 a year spending money to attend. If your a non athlete you need zero. Don't care if they can't work, football for one is 100% scholarships. These players graduate with zero debt, get housed and fed for free and get their books paid. They don't need $2,500 a semester spending money.
|
|
|
Post by Troystet on Jan 23, 2016 8:52:17 GMT -6
I don't like it, I don't agree with it and I think that this is just going to piss the regular students off. I get that these athletes can't get jobs and that not all of them are on 100 percent scholarships but what about the students that are working their butts off to pay rent? What about the kids that can't get jobs because they're overboard on classes trying to graduate on time so they don't have to take out another loan, or, and I'll be the one to bring it up, the band kids that can't work because of practices and obligations. This facebookthumbup BravoSmiley
|
|
|
Post by Trojanfan2 on Jan 23, 2016 9:36:14 GMT -6
I think we are slowly moving toward eliminating student from student-athlete. Yes there is a lot of money involved and that drives the train. Before the money became the driving factor schools like Army and Navy could compete because they truly had student-athletes. Now we recruit the athlete and then spend a huge amount of resources leading them through college in the hopes they pass with minimum grades. There are still some student-athletes but I predict they will slip into the past. The power schools are diving this train, they have the money to spend because they get the money. TV has greatly contributed to the revenue stream. Everyone gets money except (until now) the player. Not just a little money, but huge sums. So I really can't argue against the players getting some too. Yes I think it's a bad idea; but if we pay coaches ridiculous amounts, then I can no longer justify players not being paid.
I think some of the NCAA rules has contributed to this. Why can't an athlete work? Why can't he ride in my car in a rainstorm? The NCAA went overboard making sure no one got an unwarranted favor. You can't legislate morality no matter how much you try, but you can clearly explain the rules and when a school violates them make the punishment so unpleasant no one else tries.
I don't know how much money an athlete needs more than a regular student. Some spend enormous amounts on tattoos, I guess it's what you're used to. I think this sends a signal to a high school athlete to improve your skills in athletics and not worry about the grades because you can get money going to college and playing ball. $2500 isn't even a good monthly salary but to a high school kid it buys a car.
Most everyone who donates gives their money to athletics. Scholarship is not regarded as highly for donations.
|
|
|
Post by Redwaver on Jan 23, 2016 9:47:14 GMT -6
I think we are slowly moving toward eliminating student from student-athlete. Yes there is a lot of money involved and that drives the train. Before the money became the driving factor schools like Army and Navy could compete because they truly had student-athletes. Now we recruit the athlete and then spend a huge amount of resources leading them through college in the hopes they pass with minimum grades. There are still some student-athletes but I predict they will slip into the past. The power schools are diving this train, they have the money to spend because they get the money. TV has greatly contributed to the revenue stream. Everyone gets money except (until now) the player. Not just a little money, but huge sums. So I really can't argue against the players getting some too. Yes I think it's a bad idea; but if we pay coaches ridiculous amounts, then I can no longer justify players not being paid. I think some of the NCAA rules has contributed to this. Why can't an athlete work? Why can't he ride in my car in a rainstorm? The NCAA went overboard making sure no one got an unwarranted favor. You can't legislate morality no matter how much you try, but you can clearly explain the rules and when a school violates them make the punishment so unpleasant no one else tries. I don't know how much money an athlete needs more than a regular student. Some spend enormous amounts on tattoos, I guess it's what you're used to. I think this sends a signal to a high school athlete to improve your skills in athletics and not worry about the grades because you can get money going to college and playing ball. $2500 isn't even a good monthly salary but to a high school kid it buys a car. Most everyone who donates gives their money to athletics. Scholarship is not regarded as highly for donations. I can agree with your analysis, it represents how I feel a lot but those athlete still has to maintain the grades to be eligible or the scholarship and money is gone. That didn't change. If not STRONGLY regulated, it has potential to be hurtful but good grie, Power 5 schools have been giving money and cars to elite athletes for years. I have heard a financial doner for a large Alabama university (that limits it to 2) admit to helping fund a money source that went to players and that was 20 years ago. Nothing's changed!
|
|
|
Post by Hemi Man on Jan 23, 2016 10:18:49 GMT -6
Life's tough. Suck it up.
|
|
|
Post by TrojanFanatic on Jan 23, 2016 11:03:39 GMT -6
Life's tough. Suck it up. We're on a message board, we have a right to complain
|
|
|
Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Jan 23, 2016 14:09:21 GMT -6
Life's tough. Suck it up. We're on a message board, we have a right to complain Hemi would disagree with you on that. If we complain about anything, we're being negative and whining.
|
|
|
Post by trojanbrutha on Jan 23, 2016 14:12:28 GMT -6
Pretty self-explanatory...
|
|
|
Post by Hemi Man on Jan 23, 2016 14:35:24 GMT -6
Life's tough. Suck it up. We're on a message board, we have a right to complain We're on a message board, we have a right to complain Hemi would disagree with you on that. If we complain about anything, we're being negative and whining. Oh no, you have the right to whine, cry, and complain. I also have the right to make fun of your whining, crying, and complaining.
|
|
|
Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Jan 23, 2016 17:10:12 GMT -6
We're on a message board, we have a right to complain Hemi would disagree with you on that. If we complain about anything, we're being negative and whining. Oh no, you have the right to whine, cry, and complain. I also have the right to make fun of your whining, crying, and complaining. That sounds fine with me. Likewise, I have the right to continue to be the one that seeks proper progress for our school and doesn't bask in moral victories. If you'd like to call that whining, then I'm okay with that.
|
|
|
Post by Hemi Man on Jan 23, 2016 18:20:11 GMT -6
Oh no, you have the right to whine, cry, and complain. I also have the right to make fun of your whining, crying, and complaining. That sounds fine with me. Likewise, I have the right to continue to be the one that seeks proper progress for our school and doesn't bask in moral victories. If you'd like to call that whining, then I'm okay with that. Your process to seeking proper progress is via crying on a message board? Let me know how that works out for you. An anonymous voice on the Internet will likely change the course of Troy athletics from a state away. Honestly, I'm not sure what kind of moral victories can be found in the stipends.
|
|
|
Post by doug4troy on Jan 23, 2016 21:34:22 GMT -6
Oh no, you have the right to whine, cry, and complain. I also have the right to make fun of your whining, crying, and complaining. That sounds fine with me. Likewise, I have the right to continue to be the one that seeks proper progress for our school and doesn't bask in moral victories. If you'd like to call that whining, then I'm okay with that. Should we only seek progress on for our school on a message board... or is there another way?
|
|
|
Post by TrojanFanatic on Jan 23, 2016 21:51:37 GMT -6
Complaining is fun and healthy, to an extent.
Back on topic though, I don't like this idea because 1. it will let the Big 5 schools have a distinct advantage to recruit and 2. it will just further the discontent/hard feelings towards athletes.
I'm not sure that there is much of the hard feelings at bigger schools, but I know there is some at Troy, just from being a student there
|
|
|
Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Jan 23, 2016 21:58:47 GMT -6
That sounds fine with me. Likewise, I have the right to continue to be the one that seeks proper progress for our school and doesn't bask in moral victories. If you'd like to call that whining, then I'm okay with that. Your process to seeking proper progress is via crying on a message board? Let me know how that works out for you. An anonymous voice on the Internet will likely change the course of Troy athletics from a state away. Honestly, I'm not sure what kind of moral victories can be found in the stipends. My process is not being a supporter of something that has been forced into action because of former players feeling like they needed more money and the legal pressure that was used against the NCAA and its conferences. Like I said in an earlier post, many football players on Troy's team have worked small part-time jobs for extra cash (and they probably wouldn't complain today). I listed a couple that I went to school with as an example that worked. The stipend issue opens a bad can of worms that will only get worse as time progresses. One of the judges on the case (Jay Bybee) even said that “The difference between offering student-athletes education-related compensation and offering them cash sums untethered to educational expenses is not minor; it is a quantum leap. Once that line is crossed, we see no basis for returning to a rule of amateurism and no defined stopping point; we have little doubt that plaintiffs will continue to challenge the arbitrary limit imposed by the district court until they have captured the full value of their (names, images and likenesses). At that point the NCAA will have surrendered its amateurism principles entirely and transitioned from its 'particular brand of football' to minor league status.” So take that how you like, doesn't matter to me. Do you think a football player needs $3,000 in untethered money? Do you think the majority of 18-22 year olds will use it wisely and for its intended purpose? Also, I go a little further than just taking my dilemmas to this message board, so I'm more than just an anonymous voice. Whether it's effective or not, I don't know... likely not. But it's better than just dealing with it. Like one person mentioned earlier... what about the SOTS members? They spend just as much time practicing and using their time as football and basketball players, if not more since they are active the entire school year... but they won't be getting a stipend to help them out. Oh wait, I guess life is just unfair though so we need to deal with it and stop crying. I'm pretty sure many issues in our history weren't resolved by people saying "well, that's life... we'll just deal with it." So you can continue to tell me I'm crying and posting your pictures, and I'll continue to voice my opinion. I know you don't like opinions contrary to yours Hemi, but that's how things work sometimes.
|
|
|
Post by Hemi Man on Jan 24, 2016 5:58:09 GMT -6
Your process to seeking proper progress is via crying on a message board? Let me know how that works out for you. An anonymous voice on the Internet will likely change the course of Troy athletics from a state away. Honestly, I'm not sure what kind of moral victories can be found in the stipends. My process is not being a supporter of something that has been forced into action because of former players feeling like they needed more money and the legal pressure that was used against the NCAA and its conferences. Like I said in an earlier post, many football players on Troy's team have worked small part-time jobs for extra cash (and they probably wouldn't complain today). I listed a couple that I went to school with as an example that worked. The stipend issue opens a bad can of worms that will only get worse as time progresses. One of the judges on the case (Jay Bybee) even said that “The difference between offering student-athletes education-related compensation and offering them cash sums untethered to educational expenses is not minor; it is a quantum leap. Once that line is crossed, we see no basis for returning to a rule of amateurism and no defined stopping point; we have little doubt that plaintiffs will continue to challenge the arbitrary limit imposed by the district court until they have captured the full value of their (names, images and likenesses). At that point the NCAA will have surrendered its amateurism principles entirely and transitioned from its 'particular brand of football' to minor league status.” So take that how you like, doesn't matter to me. Do you think a football player needs $3,000 in untethered money? Do you think the majority of 18-22 year olds will use it wisely and for its intended purpose? Also, I go a little further than just taking my dilemmas to this message board, so I'm more than just an anonymous voice. Whether it's effective or not, I don't know... likely not. But it's better than just dealing with it. Like one person mentioned earlier... what about the SOTS members? They spend just as much time practicing and using their time as football and basketball players, if not more since they are active the entire school year... but they won't be getting a stipend to help them out. Oh wait, I guess life is just unfair though so we need to deal with it and stop crying. I'm pretty sure many issues in our history weren't resolved by people saying "well, that's life... we'll just deal with it." So you can continue to tell me I'm crying and posting your pictures, and I'll continue to voice my opinion. I know you don't like opinions contrary to yours Hemi, but that's how things work sometimes. I don't know how you live, but $3000 is not a lot of money. Do SOTS members bring in the majority of the money for the athletic department? Yea, you are going to continue to whine, but it's kind of funny, so by all means, proceed.
|
|
|
Post by cardinalblacktrojan on Jan 24, 2016 7:16:01 GMT -6
My process is not being a supporter of something that has been forced into action because of former players feeling like they needed more money and the legal pressure that was used against the NCAA and its conferences. Like I said in an earlier post, many football players on Troy's team have worked small part-time jobs for extra cash (and they probably wouldn't complain today). I listed a couple that I went to school with as an example that worked. The stipend issue opens a bad can of worms that will only get worse as time progresses. One of the judges on the case (Jay Bybee) even said that “The difference between offering student-athletes education-related compensation and offering them cash sums untethered to educational expenses is not minor; it is a quantum leap. Once that line is crossed, we see no basis for returning to a rule of amateurism and no defined stopping point; we have little doubt that plaintiffs will continue to challenge the arbitrary limit imposed by the district court until they have captured the full value of their (names, images and likenesses). At that point the NCAA will have surrendered its amateurism principles entirely and transitioned from its 'particular brand of football' to minor league status.” So take that how you like, doesn't matter to me. Do you think a football player needs $3,000 in untethered money? Do you think the majority of 18-22 year olds will use it wisely and for its intended purpose? Also, I go a little further than just taking my dilemmas to this message board, so I'm more than just an anonymous voice. Whether it's effective or not, I don't know... likely not. But it's better than just dealing with it. Like one person mentioned earlier... what about the SOTS members? They spend just as much time practicing and using their time as football and basketball players, if not more since they are active the entire school year... but they won't be getting a stipend to help them out. Oh wait, I guess life is just unfair though so we need to deal with it and stop crying. I'm pretty sure many issues in our history weren't resolved by people saying "well, that's life... we'll just deal with it." So you can continue to tell me I'm crying and posting your pictures, and I'll continue to voice my opinion. I know you don't like opinions contrary to yours Hemi, but that's how things work sometimes. I don't know how you live, but $3000 is not a lot of money. Do SOTS members bring in the majority of the money for the athletic department? Yea, you are going to continue to whine, but it's kind of funny, so by all means, proceed. They don't bring money into the athletic departmemt, but would you disagree that they don't advertise the university in outside performances and band camps? I know more people here in Tampa that have heard of Troy because of the Sound of the South than the football team.
|
|
|
Post by Redwaver on Jan 24, 2016 7:39:30 GMT -6
I don't know how you live, but $3000 is not a lot of money. Do SOTS members bring in the majority of the money for the athletic department? Yea, you are going to continue to whine, but it's kind of funny, so by all means, proceed. They don't bring money into the athletic departmemt, but would you disagree that they don't advertise the university in outside performances and band camps? I know more people here in Tampa that have heard of Troy because of the Sound of the South than the football team. I can see both sides of this issue and I certainly can see the dangerous side if not monitored but part of me feels that the NCAA can take part of the blame for this happening by not being more aggressive with schools whom have obviously been paying players for years. When you see poor high school kids who are great athletes start driving fancy cars just prior to commiting to a Power 5 university then fairness has already left the building. When you see poor kids with expensive tattoos all over their bodies, dress to the "T" it seems that pay to play is already happening. I'm not completely comfortable with where it might go or what it might mean to smaller schools. It CAN'T be allowed to become a recruiting tool by one school giving more than another. I remember the day a fantastic kid from a school near us whose family was great but poor as church mice started driving a Pontiac Firebird from a huge Auburn supporter in our town and an admitted funder of a pay to play group there. What was fantastic the kid picked FSU and went on to set tons of records and got drafted into the NFL. Pay to play is not a new concept and those that obeyed the rules list out because the NCAA more often than not seemed to look the other way! JMHO!
|
|
|
Post by saintflorian on Jan 24, 2016 12:30:42 GMT -6
Oh no, you have the right to whine, cry, and complain. I also have the right to make fun of your whining, crying, and complaining. That sounds fine with me. Likewise, I have the right to continue to be the one that seeks proper progress for our school and doesn't bask in moral victories. If you'd like to call that whining, then I'm okay with that. CardinalBlack, you are beating your head against the wall trying to have a logical conversion with Troy Excuse Club. They never know what is wrong, have no ideas how to fix it, hold nobody accountable, they have no opinions. They just want you to follow blindly, don't voice any opinion and praise all the coaches, admin and staff, regardless of the situation. Again, a coach could be caught on live national TV hurting kittens and puppies and the Excuse Club would justify it and tell you that you are wrong for condemning it. We need more realistic supporters like you. Voice your opinions to the AD and Admin. Don't care what side you stand on, whether it's if you believe coaches should be given lifetime contacts and 10 years to turn around a program or if you believe they should win championships every year. Don't let them bully you out of your support.
|
|
|
Post by Hemi Man on Jan 24, 2016 13:47:24 GMT -6
I don't know how you live, but $3000 is not a lot of money. Do SOTS members bring in the majority of the money for the athletic department? Yea, you are going to continue to whine, but it's kind of funny, so by all means, proceed. They don't bring money into the athletic departmemt, but would you disagree that they don't advertise the university in outside performances and band camps? I know more people here in Tampa that have heard of Troy because of the Sound of the South than the football team. Now you have pretty much made my point for me. The SOTS are great for Troy university. Sometimes life isn't fair. The NCAA isn't going to reverse its decision because some people think it isn't fair to this or that group. College football is a money driven industry. Personally when all the stipend talk started I was not in favor of it. Now that it's here I'm not going to sit around and complain about how unfair it is to the other students. Here's a shock many of those students aren't at all concerned with Troy athletics to begin with. Those that are Troy fans, aren't likely to be change their mind over this decision by the NCAA. I'm extremely glad Troy decided to pay the stipend and keep up with the majority of the other G5's. This won't change how G5's and P5's stack up to each other. The P5's will always have the upper hand when it comes to football. It isn't fair that an 18 year old can die for their country, but they can't smoke a cigarette or drink a beer. I will give you credit for this. If you actually do attend most home basketball games, and you live near Tampa, you are a road warrior.
|
|
|
Post by TrojanFanatic on Jan 24, 2016 14:26:51 GMT -6
They don't bring money into the athletic departmemt, but would you disagree that they don't advertise the university in outside performances and band camps? I know more people here in Tampa that have heard of Troy because of the Sound of the South than the football team. Now you have pretty much made my point for me. The SOTS are great for Troy university. Sometimes life isn't fair. The NCAA isn't going to reverse its decision because some people think it isn't fair to this or that group. College football is a money driven industry. Personally when all the stipend talk started I was not in favor of it. Now that it's here I'm not going to sit around and complain about how unfair it is to the other students. Here's a shock many of those students aren't at all concerned with Troy athletics to begin with. Those that are Troy fans, aren't likely to be change their mind over this decision by the NCAA. I'm extremely glad Troy decided to pay the stipend and keep up with the majority of the other G5's. This won't change how G5's and P5's stack up to each other. The P5's will always have the upper hand when it comes to football. It isn't fair that an 18 year old can die for their country, but they can't smoke a cigarette or drink a beer. I will give you credit for this. If you actually do attend most home basketball games, and you live near Tampa, you are a road warrior. The thing about it is, yes, nothing we do will change the NCAA's mind. And you're right, this won't affect most students, BUT I truly believe that it will affect morale on campus. Most students DO care about Troy football, whether anyone on this board thinks so or not. Students get in free to games, great, but what happens when those same students have to pay to get in because athletics can't fund the stipend and student have to pay full price to get in? Is it a big deal? Not really, but you're going from free to whatever full price is per game, and you don't think this will effect attendance? It may not be much, but I just see this going belly up, and not just at Troy, at most small universities.
|
|