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Post by Trojanfan2 on Oct 18, 2015 8:45:46 GMT -6
There is a lot of talk on the board about facilities to attract recruits and also about how to coach and whether or not we hire the right coaches. I'm beginning to wonder on whether or not Troy athletics if focusing on the right stuff. In my humble and normally accurate opinion the athletics department (primarily football) is focusing on new facilities, flashy helmets, cool uniforms, blackout nights, and other stuff to supposedly attract recruits and fans. Now all that is well and good but unfortunately we aren't winning football games that we should win.
In my consulting business I often find companies that are struggling to make the bottom line. Most of the time I find that the company has gotten away from its core operations and is spending a lot of time managing something that has little to do with the product the company was originally started to produce. Often times I've found managers so devoted to managing the change that they forget to manage the production.
I'm thinking that may be at Troy. Coaches can be caught up in the "we need this or that to recruit, we need palaces for offices, we need instant access to all information, we have to keep up with the Joneses".
We have good facilities. They are good enough to attract almost any recruit in high school. They're not as good as some schools but so what. If a recruit thinks that shiny helmets, carpet on the locker room floor, and the name on the back of his jersey, are primarily important then I'm not sure I'd want him as a player.
Maybe things have changed, but I think human nature is fairly constant. Competent coaches, austere facilities, and grueling practices have produced more good teams and camaraderie among teammates than all the flash and dash combined.
Quit worrying about how pretty things are and put a winning team on the field. That's what attracts recruits, fans, and generous donors. We can pretty things up after we win.
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Post by trojanbrutha on Oct 18, 2015 8:51:09 GMT -6
Exactly...so, what happened from 2006-2010?
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Post by jerichojohnny on Oct 18, 2015 11:31:55 GMT -6
Sounds like a chicken-and-egg question. How do they do what you propose? Just through force of will?
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Post by Trojanfan2 on Oct 19, 2015 7:28:04 GMT -6
Sounds like a chicken-and-egg question. How do they do what you propose? Just through force of will? Exactly! That's what good leaders do. They impose their will by teaching, coaching, leading by example, demonstrating, and a myriad of other things to impose their will to get a group of people to do what the leader knows they have to do. We're not turning a large organization or even a carrier task force around. It's a football team. We were told that everyone on the team "bought in", that the bad apples are gone, that these kids have the character we want. That should make it easier to coach these players. The defense seems to have got the memo. The defense gets caught flat once or twice a game but they adjust and they get better every game. Ok, so we're short a few scholarships; fill them. So we don't have a big experienced offensive line; use a fullback to help with blocking, run some options, slants, pull the guards for power plays, whatever, but stop pounding the middle when it isn't working. We knew the capabilities and limitations of this team after the first two games. Make the adjustments, find the things that work for this team and quit expecting them to do something that doesn't work (like pounding the middle). Build on the things that are successful, even the little things; that builds confidence. I don't see a lot of confidence on the offense. Rebuild the Wall?? Start with a good foundation, That's supposed to happen in August. And please quit blaming Blakeney. It's Brown's team now. He is responsible for the team win or lose. Fans expect their team to win the games that they are supposed to win and be competitive in the games were they are over-matched. We are six games into the season, halfway over, we played better against NC State than we did against USA and Idaho.
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Post by Troystet on Oct 19, 2015 7:40:07 GMT -6
Sounds like a chicken-and-egg question. How do they do what you propose? Just through force of will? Exactly! That's what good leaders do. They impose their will by teaching, coaching, leading by example, demonstrating, and a myriad of other things to impose their will to get a group of people to do what the leader knows they have to do. We're not turning a large organization or even a carrier task force around. It's a football team. We were told that everyone on the team "bought in", that the bad apples are gone, that these kids have the character we want. That should make it easier to coach these players. The defense seems to have got the memo. The defense gets caught flat once or twice a game but they adjust and they get better every game. Ok, so we're short a few scholarships; fill them. So we don't have a big experienced offensive line; use a fullback to help with blocking, run some options, slants, pull the guards for power plays, whatever, but stop pounding the middle when it isn't working. We knew the capabilities and limitations of this team after the first two games. Make the adjustments, find the things that work for this team and quit expecting them to do something that doesn't work (like pounding the middle). Build on the things that are successful, even the little things; that builds confidence. I don't see a lot of confidence on the offense. Rebuild the Wall?? Start with a good foundation, That's supposed to happen in August. And please quit blaming Blakeney. It's Brown's team now. He is responsible for the team win or lose. Fans expect their team to win the games that they are supposed to win and be competitive in the games were they are over-matched. We are six games into the season, halfway over, we played better against NC State than we did against USA and Idaho.
You have a proven DC in VK and a good staff around him. He has taken a horrible defense and had us in a position to win every game except Nc St and MSU. We help Wisonsin pretty well. We held Idaho to 19 points and couldn't score 16 on a team giving up over 40 a game. This offense is worse than last year and last year was pretty bad. I don't understand how we have 4 scholarship qbs, recruited by the sme coaches on the offense (except NB) and we can't throw the ball in a wide open spread offense. Has this staff misjudged talent? Do they not know how to coach said talent? If we are going to score 14 points a game we might as well go back to the wishbone, at least teams don't see that every week. I am at a loss why this offense guru calling the plays can't score or do anything offensively? Execution is not an excuse, it's his job to coach execution. VK turned it around right now and he had far less talent to work with than the offense did. So what excuse do we except? This is an embarrassment to anybody who has worn the Troy uniform. I could not attend Sat due to a trip with my wife planned a year in advance but I've talked to 6 former teammates who attended...the consisious? Utter disgust
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Post by jonesoxygen on Oct 19, 2015 7:50:01 GMT -6
There is a lot of talk on the board about facilities to attract recruits and also about how to coach and whether or not we hire the right coaches. I'm beginning to wonder on whether or not Troy athletics if focusing on the right stuff. In my humble and normally accurate opinion the athletics department (primarily football) is focusing on new facilities, flashy helmets, cool uniforms, blackout nights, and other stuff to supposedly attract recruits and fans. Now all that is well and good but unfortunately we aren't winning football games that we should win. In my consulting business I often find companies that are struggling to make the bottom line. Most of the time I find that the company has gotten away from its core operations and is spending a lot of time managing something that has little to do with the product the company was originally started to produce. Often times I've found managers so devoted to managing the change that they forget to manage the production. I'm thinking that may be at Troy. Coaches can be caught up in the "we need this or that to recruit, we need palaces for offices, we need instant access to all information, we have to keep up with the Joneses". We have good facilities. They are good enough to attract almost any recruit in high school. They're not as good as some schools but so what. If a recruit thinks that shiny helmets, carpet on the locker room floor, and the name on the back of his jersey, are primarily important then I'm not sure I'd want him as a player. Maybe things have changed, but I think human nature is fairly constant. Competent coaches, austere facilities, and grueling practices have produced more good teams and camaraderie among teammates than all the flash and dash combined. Quit worrying about how pretty things are and put a winning team on the field. That's what attracts recruits, fans, and generous donors. We can pretty things up after we win. You make some valid points, but I disagree on facilities. Once our conference opponents and South Alabama built facilities and we did nothing, things started slipping away and turning this thing around it taking a long time. Uniforms are a HUGE deal for 18 year olds, we are all old and they mean nothing to us.
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Post by Troystet on Oct 19, 2015 8:56:22 GMT -6
Exactly...so, what happened from 2006-2010? We had a offense that most teams didn't run and a few years with a horrible conference. WKU was on a 19 game losing streak, FIU was awful, FAU imploded with a senile coach who kept calling his qb's Jim Kelly (fact) and dont forget UNT and ULL wasn't any good either.
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Post by Hemi Man on Oct 19, 2015 9:04:50 GMT -6
Exactly...so, what happened from 2006-2010? We had a offense that most teams didn't run and a few years with a horrible conference. WKU was on a 19 game losing streak, FIU was awful, FAU imploded with a senile coach who kept calling his qb's Jim Kelly (fact) and dont forget UNT and ULL wasn't any good either. Stop diminishing the tradition and legacy the players on those teams set.
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Post by Cane Gone Trojan on Oct 19, 2015 9:23:26 GMT -6
If Troy would just go to white helmets, everything would be ok.
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Post by trojanempire on Oct 19, 2015 9:24:19 GMT -6
We had a offense that most teams didn't run and a few years with a horrible conference. WKU was on a 19 game losing streak, FIU was awful, FAU imploded with a senile coach who kept calling his qb's Jim Kelly (fact) and dont forget UNT and ULL wasn't any good either. Stop diminishing the tradition and legacy the players on those teams set. What he says is true but it doesn't diminish what they did. What has been going on since 2010 is diminishing what they did.
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Post by Troystet on Oct 19, 2015 9:26:41 GMT -6
We had a offense that most teams didn't run and a few years with a horrible conference. WKU was on a 19 game losing streak, FIU was awful, FAU imploded with a senile coach who kept calling his qb's Jim Kelly (fact) and dont forget UNT and ULL wasn't any good either. Stop diminishing the tradition and legacy the players on those teams set. Not diminishing anything. You all diminish our D2 days all the time, but it's your buddies so that's ok. Proud of those 2006-10 teams but I just pointed out there were some weak teams then that's all. We can't even beat the weak ones now
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Post by Hemi Man on Oct 19, 2015 10:30:38 GMT -6
Stop diminishing the tradition and legacy the players on those teams set. Not diminishing anything. You all diminish our D2 days all the time, but it's your buddies so that's ok. Proud of those 2006-10 teams but I just pointed out there were some weak teams then that's all. We can't even beat the weak ones now I feel confident that if 06-10 were replaced with D2 in the above statement you would be running down I75 screaming for respect and Justice.
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Post by Troystet on Oct 19, 2015 10:37:21 GMT -6
Not diminishing anything. You all diminish our D2 days all the time, but it's your buddies so that's ok. Proud of those 2006-10 teams but I just pointed out there were some weak teams then that's all. We can't even beat the weak ones now I feel confident that if 06-10 were replaced with D2 in the above statement you would be running down I75 screaming for respect and Justice. Think what you want, you always do. And if one of your tailgate buddies said D2 you would say nothing as always. I know you don't comprend well so I'll make it simple. Proud of those 2006-10 teams, went to two of the bowl games. Also answered a question with some facts, conference was different then but we won the games we should win and a few that we upset some teams. We can't even do that now. That disrespects those players, not stating a fact that UNT and WKU were like a combined 2-30 but we beat them. So take that as you want. Proud of the 5 rings, they earned them
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Post by buzzlightyear on Oct 19, 2015 10:46:15 GMT -6
If Troy would just go to white helmets, everything would be ok. or recruit only South of Orlando
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Post by Troystet on Oct 19, 2015 10:50:20 GMT -6
If Troy would just go to white helmets, everything would be ok. or recruit only South of Orlando Typical smart a$$ comment. Here's a fact. All of you are in here saying we don't have any talent. Guess where there is a ton of it? And we don't recruit there. So keep complaining about our talent then. We need to recruit AL, all of GA, all of MS and all of Florida, not just the panhandle. That's ok, USA, UAB, App St, GA Southern and others thank us.
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Post by saintflorian on Oct 19, 2015 11:12:24 GMT -6
Sounds like a chicken-and-egg question. How do they do what you propose? Just through force of will? Exactly! That's what good leaders do. They impose their will by teaching, coaching, leading by example, demonstrating, and a myriad of other things to impose their will to get a group of people to do what the leader knows they have to do. We're not turning a large organization or even a carrier task force around. It's a football team. We were told that everyone on the team "bought in", that the bad apples are gone, that these kids have the character we want. That should make it easier to coach these players. The defense seems to have got the memo. The defense gets caught flat once or twice a game but they adjust and they get better every game. Ok, so we're short a few scholarships; fill them. So we don't have a big experienced offensive line; use a fullback to help with blocking, run some options, slants, pull the guards for power plays, whatever, but stop pounding the middle when it isn't working. We knew the capabilities and limitations of this team after the first two games. Make the adjustments, find the things that work for this team and quit expecting them to do something that doesn't work (like pounding the middle). Build on the things that are successful, even the little things; that builds confidence. I don't see a lot of confidence on the offense. Rebuild the Wall?? Start with a good foundation, That's supposed to happen in August. And please quit blaming Blakeney. It's Brown's team now. He is responsible for the team win or lose. Fans expect their team to win the games that they are supposed to win and be competitive in the games were they are over-matched. We are six games into the season, halfway over, we played better against NC State than we did against USA and Idaho.
Whoa ! A post that seeks accountability and responsibility. Not one that is saying think rainbows, fairies and unicorns and all is well. Shocking.
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Post by Trojanfan2 on Oct 19, 2015 11:20:33 GMT -6
or recruit only South of Orlando Typical smart a$$ comment. Here's a fact. All of you are in here saying we don't have any talent. Guess where there is a ton of it? And we don't recruit there. So keep complaining about our talent then. We need to recruit AL, all of GA, all of MS and all of Florida, not just the panhandle. That's ok, USA, UAB, App St, GA Southern and others thank us. I think a lot of traditional recruiting has been replaced by HUDDLE (SP?) or Scout.com. Teams like Alabama, Ohio St, etc can select. We have to recruit. I think it's better when coaches had to establish records and relationships with other coaches to find recruits. They trusted each other and helped each other regardless of the part of the country the recruits were in. Draw a circle around Troy, as large as you can support, and establish relationship with the coaches in that circle. Once you've done that then expand. If there is a good fertile ground like South Fl then try to do the same there but it's probably going to be harder since you're in someone else's circle unless they haven't done their job.
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Post by Troystet on Oct 19, 2015 11:40:53 GMT -6
Typical smart a$$ comment. Here's a fact. All of you are in here saying we don't have any talent. Guess where there is a ton of it? And we don't recruit there. So keep complaining about our talent then. We need to recruit AL, all of GA, all of MS and all of Florida, not just the panhandle. That's ok, USA, UAB, App St, GA Southern and others thank us. I think a lot of traditional recruiting has been replaced by HUDDLE (SP?) or Scout.com. Teams like Alabama, Ohio St, etc can select. We have to recruit. I think it's better when coaches had to establish records and relationships with other coaches to find recruits. They trusted each other and helped each other regardless of the part of the country the recruits were in. Draw a circle around Troy, as large as you can support, and establish relationship with the coaches in that circle. Once you've done that then expand. If there is a good fertile ground like South Fl then try to do the same there but it's probably going to be harder since you're in someone else's circle unless they haven't done their job. Akron, who whipped ULL, has 19 players from South of me in Cent FL. Now if they can get a player to go to but cold, a 20-24 hour drive or three hour flight, then why can't we? The MAC, Big 10, SEC, ACC, C-USA, and teams like GA Southern, App St. Recruit here heavily along with their home areas. Now if these teams deem it necessary to recruit here and they are kicking our buts, shouldn't we to? Guess not Even when we were D2 we recruited the whole state of FL. My signing class had players from North Al to South AL, GA, TN, MS, and from Pensacola to Miami-Hialeah Lakes and spots in between. That's a big circle.
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Post by trojanempire on Oct 19, 2015 12:49:56 GMT -6
I think a lot of traditional recruiting has been replaced by HUDDLE (SP?) or Scout.com. Teams like Alabama, Ohio St, etc can select. We have to recruit. I think it's better when coaches had to establish records and relationships with other coaches to find recruits. They trusted each other and helped each other regardless of the part of the country the recruits were in. Draw a circle around Troy, as large as you can support, and establish relationship with the coaches in that circle. Once you've done that then expand. If there is a good fertile ground like South Fl then try to do the same there but it's probably going to be harder since you're in someone else's circle unless they haven't done their job. Akron, who whipped ULL, has 19 players from South of me in Cent FL. Now if they can get a player to go to but cold, a 20-24 hour drive or three hour flight, then why can't we? The MAC, Big 10, SEC, ACC, C-USA, and teams like GA Southern, App St. Recruit here heavily along with their home areas. Now if these teams deem it necessary to recruit here and they are kicking our buts, shouldn't we to? Guess not Even when we were D2 we recruited the whole state of FL. My signing class had players from North Al to South AL, GA, TN, MS, and from Pensacola to Miami-Hialeah Lakes and spots in between. That's a big circle. I am not disagreeing with you but one reason we don't have as many south Florida kids at Troy compared as to when you played is because FAU, FIU, USF, and USF either didn't have football at the time or were in their infancy
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Post by Troystet on Oct 19, 2015 12:55:20 GMT -6
Akron, who whipped ULL, has 19 players from South of me in Cent FL. Now if they can get a player to go to but cold, a 20-24 hour drive or three hour flight, then why can't we? The MAC, Big 10, SEC, ACC, C-USA, and teams like GA Southern, App St. Recruit here heavily along with their home areas. Now if these teams deem it necessary to recruit here and they are kicking our buts, shouldn't we to? Guess not Even when we were D2 we recruited the whole state of FL. My signing class had players from North Al to South AL, GA, TN, MS, and from Pensacola to Miami-Hialeah Lakes and spots in between. That's a big circle. I am not disagreeing with you but one reason we don't have as many south Florida kids at Troy compared as to when you played is because FAU, FIU, USF, and USF either didn't have football at the time or were in their infancy Understand that but these kids are going to MAC schools, Marshall, and other places twice as far as we are. There is more talent from Orlando south than the state schools can fill. Every kid is different. Some want away from home, some want to stay. Players from AL go out of state also
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Post by TheAmericanDream on Oct 19, 2015 13:50:31 GMT -6
DII sucks.
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Post by Navarre Trojan on Oct 19, 2015 16:46:32 GMT -6
I think a lot of traditional recruiting has been replaced by HUDDLE (SP?) or Scout.com. Teams like Alabama, Ohio St, etc can select. We have to recruit. I think it's better when coaches had to establish records and relationships with other coaches to find recruits. They trusted each other and helped each other regardless of the part of the country the recruits were in. Draw a circle around Troy, as large as you can support, and establish relationship with the coaches in that circle. Once you've done that then expand. If there is a good fertile ground like South Fl then try to do the same there but it's probably going to be harder since you're in someone else's circle unless they haven't done their job. Akron, who whipped ULL, has 19 players from South of me in Cent FL. Now if they can get a player to go to but cold, a 20-24 hour drive or three hour flight, then why can't we? The MAC, Big 10, SEC, ACC, C-USA, and teams like GA Southern, App St. Recruit here heavily along with their home areas. Now if these teams deem it necessary to recruit here and they are kicking our buts, shouldn't we to? Guess not Even when we were D2 we recruited the whole state of FL. My signing class had players from North Al to South AL, GA, TN, MS, and from Pensacola to Miami-Hialeah Lakes and spots in between. That's a big circle. Coached by a Bowden which in the state of Florida means a hell of a lot more playing for than say, oh Neal Brown at TROY! Come on, are you just not getting it that recruiting starts at home and works outward. The camps provide about 75% of our recruits, higher some years. Our budget is limited, flim study happens if a kid posts on his recruiting site. It's not like the "old" days, we don't have the money to travel like the big schools and don't have Florida Royalty coaching our team. Also, be careful when using terms like, "all of you on here...". I try to respect your legacy at TROY and what you (and others of course) did to pave the way for where we are now. YOU and your teammates, and brother football letter winners ALL had a part in helping us grow up and play BIG BOY football and for that I am thankful. Time changes everything, except minds, then it becomes an individual choice. So its time to chose, for all of us, get on the train and ride it, both rough and smooth.
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Post by Troystet on Oct 19, 2015 16:56:21 GMT -6
Akron, who whipped ULL, has 19 players from South of me in Cent FL. Now if they can get a player to go to but cold, a 20-24 hour drive or three hour flight, then why can't we? The MAC, Big 10, SEC, ACC, C-USA, and teams like GA Southern, App St. Recruit here heavily along with their home areas. Now if these teams deem it necessary to recruit here and they are kicking our buts, shouldn't we to? Guess not Even when we were D2 we recruited the whole state of FL. My signing class had players from North Al to South AL, GA, TN, MS, and from Pensacola to Miami-Hialeah Lakes and spots in between. That's a big circle. Coached by a Bowden which in the state of Florida means a hell of a lot more playing for than say, oh Neal Brown at TROY! Come on, are you just not getting it that recruiting starts at home and works outward. The camps provide about 75% of our recruits, higher some years. Our budget is limited, flim study happens if a kid posts on his recruiting site. It's not like the "old" days, we don't have the money to travel like the big schools and don't have Florida Royalty coaching our team. Also, be careful when using terms like, "all of you on here...". I try to respect your legacy at TROY and what you (and others of course) did to pave the way for where we are now. YOU and your teammates, and brother football letter winners ALL had a part in helping us grow up and play BIG BOY football and for that I am thankful. Time changes everything, except minds, then it becomes an individual choice. So its time to chose, for all of us, get on the train and ride it, both rough and smooth. So a kid wants to leave his family, go to a school over 1,000 miles away that his parents more than likely will never see a game, to a dirty city (born there) to play in but cold just because the coach has Bowden for a name? Maybe some truth to that but that isn't the only reason. The above recruiting strategy...how's that working for us? All I hear is we have no talent, wait for a few years. All I'm saying is try. Does Georgia Southern, App St, Western Michigan, Marshall and others have these huge recruiting budgets that we don't have? A lot of talent that can fill needs we have, no excuse for not trying. If we are counting on a camp to do 75% of our recruiting, we have bigger problems than imagined
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Post by Navarre Trojan on Oct 19, 2015 17:24:20 GMT -6
I don't know what else to say, your absolutely right, LOTS of other people wrong. YOU WIN!!!
Don't think we will EVER please you, so going to just say, "you win"! You are ALL KNOWING!!!
BYE BYE!
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Post by Troystet on Oct 19, 2015 17:27:33 GMT -6
I'm at the point where I feel that. I've met you once and liked you. I get sick of the ridicule for having an opinion On something that can help Troy. Sorry you feel that way about me. It is sad that people get treated like that. Trojans one and all ? What a joke
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